O/T - general election 2019

[WanChaiMiller]

Wrong.

The motion referred to everyone, the whole world.

You read the wrong papers. Propaganda eh. How did Priti Patal get the figure of 850,000 extra immigrants under Labour when details of the motion has not been finalised or confirmed as policy.

You bet your life that after the right wing press does their work it will be fact by the morning.

[great_fire]

You read the wrong papers. Propaganda eh. How did Priti Patal get the figure of 850,000 extra immigrants under Labour when details of the motion has not been finalised or confirmed as policy.

You bet your life that after the right wing press does their work it will be fact by the morning.

What do you think "maintain and extend movement rights" means?

Which is what was passed at conference.

And "maintain and expand free movement" as shown here?

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

It's still not in the manifesto gf. There's a ' Clause V ' meeting on Saturday about what's going into the Manifesto as regards immigration.
If Len McCluskey gets his way it will be watered down.
Wouldn't mind being a ' fly on the wall ' when Abbott and McCluskey start chit-chat across the table..

Time to trash it / agree with it is when it's in the Manifesto, same goes for Tories Immigration policy.

[WanChaiMiller]

What do you think "maintain and extend movement rights" means?

Which is what was passed at conference.

And "maintain and expand free movement" as shown here?

The article I copief is a report of conference written up on the Labour party website. Why not read it.

This relates to continuing free movement to the UK from EU countries after we leave the EU. You can say it relates to the rest of the world all you like but you are wrong.

[KerrAvon]

The article I copief is a report of conference written up on the Labour party website. Why not read it.

This relates to continuing free movement to the UK from EU countries after we leave the EU. You can say it relates to the rest of the world all you like but you are wrong.

I agree that we need to wait for the Labour manifesto (I'll have a small wager that it will be very vague on immigration), but the conference motion tells you where the mood of the party is.

I don't agree that the motion referred only to the EU. How could you extend EU free movement? And why the reference to immigration detention centres, which are only used for higher risk illegal immigrants as opposed to EU citizens?

[great_fire]

The article I copief is a report of conference written up on the Labour party website. Why not read it.

This relates to continuing free movement to the UK from EU countries after we leave the EU. You can say it relates to the rest of the world all you like but you are wrong.

"But the motion, put forward by campaign group Labour for Free Movement, commits the party to a stronger stance, which includes "campaigning for free movement, equality and rights for migrants" and says it will "maintain and extend" movement rights."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ty-backs-plans

[WanChaiMiller]

I agree that we need to wait for the Labour manifesto (I'll have a small wager that it will be very vague on immigration), but the conference motion tells you where the mood of the party is.

I don't agree that the motion referred only to the EU. How could you extend EU free movement? And why the reference to immigration detention centres, which are only used for higher risk illegal immigrants as opposed to EU citizens?

I cant speak for what delegates intend. However, we can make assumptions based on what we read. I posted up the report of the debate from the Labour Party website - that should hold more weight tham how its reported in Tory and anti Corbyn / Labour press.

The article opens with this (and its quite key to understsnding the context of the debate) - "On its final day, Labour conference has approved a radical policy motion advocating the extension of free movement, the closure of all detention centres and the awarding of equal voting rights to all UK residents."

It was a debate about the 2017 manifesto pledge that stated: “Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union.” In April, Jeremy Corbyn’s spokesperson confirmed that Labour policy was that freedom of movement would end with Brexit."

The vote was to change this policy - "But Labour conference delegates this morning voted against that policy, and in favour of both maintaining and extending freedom of movement as part of a range of immigration policy pledges proposed by Camberwell and Peckham CLP."

The reference to 'extend free movement' was beyond Brexit and refers to the EU - rather than to extend it to the rest of the world.

However, I do agree, the debate was more wide ranging as stated in the opening statement - nothing is hidden.

In part, it covered the right of immigrants to vote - "In the UK, full voting rights are currently limited to citizens of the UK, Ireland and Commonwealth countries. EU citizens living in the UK can vote in local and European elections, but not general elections.
The motion seeks to instruct the next Labour government to change the situation, such that non-EU and non-Commonwealth citizens are awarded the right to vote in all elections."

And the reference to immigration centres as follows - "The immigration motion approved supports the dismantling of the ‘hostile environment’ through a number of measures, from specific legislative moves to broader party campaign objectives."

"the closure of all detention centres" references the current method to hold asylum seekers and illegal immigrants (yoj described them as higher risk illegals).

Im not arguing for or against any of this. Just how sections taken out of context can be thought to mean something totally different. Propaganda eh.

[frogmiller]

Thanks for info frog. Appreciated

There's one very important thing that I forgot to mention.

Anyone entitled to state health care must apply for a Carte *****e. Without this card the amount of paper work is incredibly and you will receive a bill for the treatment.

The card has a chip in-built which stores your data from hospital visits, medication you have been on and which insurance company you're with.

You receive a statement of costs covered and by whom.

You need to present this card from anywhere from the dentist to eye tests. The emergency ambulance will also ask for it before you set off.

You can present it later of course without issue but they'll make sure you're not discharged before doing so.

It's maybe why the system isn't straining as in the UK but last year it was with the flu crisis m

[wendun]

As usual Kerr makes some perceptive points on Labour's likely approach to immigration. If he's not a solicitor he should be. I don't agree with immigration. I have several objections but will give two here. First it promotes a lazy attitude within UK businesses and organisations so they can dodge the more difficult options of better education and training here. Is it really sensible that my mates software business has recruited two guys from India? Wtf is happening with our own education system? Second it denudes donor countries of many of their best people and I can't see how, for example, supposed socialists applaud the NHS recruiting doctors from places like Nigeria.

[great_fire]

As usual Kerr makes some perceptive points on Labour's likely approach to immigration. If he's not a solicitor he should be. I don't agree with immigration. I have several objections but will give two here. First it promotes a lazy attitude within UK businesses and organisations so they can dodge the more difficult options of better education and training here. Is it really sensible that my mates software business has recruited two guys from India? Wtf is happening with our own education system? Second it denudes donor countries of many of their best people and I can't see how, for example, supposed socialists applaud the NHS recruiting doctors from places like Nigeria.

It's not laziness, it's cheapness, costs more money to train people than import them.