⚽ Match Thread vs. Harrogate Town FC 16.12.23 [EFL L2]

[jackal2]

Why do we need no nonsense defenders? That is NOT how we play somewhat is the point? The defence is being exposed by the lack of Matty Palmer who covered and also give them an out ball, we don't have that other than Bostock who is only managing 60 mins and is very one footed. The key is replacing Palmer and potentially a new keeper

A bit of both I'd say.

It's true that some of our defensive problems are beginning in midfield, but both there and in defence we look very flimsy when we're not in possession and not in control of the game, which naturally happens more at this level than in the National League because the opposition are better at stopping us playing the way we want.

Recent games in particular have exposed a real lack of 'bite' in our midfield and defensive areas, where we sometimes lack physicality and our tackling is really poor. You can't finesse your way through every game as the standard increases. You need some players in your team who can put a foot in, win tackles and win headers when the going gets tough. There's an old adage that you have to earn the right to play your football, and I think at times this season we haven't shown enough grittiness to earn that right against teams who possess as much if not more quality than we do, and who turn up intending to impose themselves rather than survive.

[the_anticlough]

I would hope the senior players call a meeting and discuss some hard truths. It’s easy when you’re winning but when a managers saying you’re not even battling then it’s time for a reset.

There's something I think LW should've done himself...acknowledged in the media, more than he has done, that he asks an awful lot of the defenders, the wide defenders in particular.

I felt sorry for Brindley yesterday with Nemane beaten up the pitch, numbers attacking his flank (like the Walsall winner) and him not being equipped to do very much about it. The players at RCB, LCB are exposed, not only in the games, but their reputations with the fans and across football (the central position is a hiding place relatively that they'd all like to run to). I think Cameron's done OK after a bad start to the season and is getting better, but those who have featured at RCB have been roasted and made to look bad on a regular basis. Not only that, but they see more of the ball than any outfield players virtually, and are expected to start our build up play. We'll see if Macari can do better over the long term, but whoever fills those roles in his system, LW should do more to back them or I could imagine resentment building up.

[i961pie]

“But why have we had so many injuries to key players?” And; why do many of the players seem to now lack energy? - these are questions that I would like to see answered, is it just a case of the players being unlucky or have the intense training sessions taken its toll on the players?.

I’m certainly not saying that this is the case but there is usually a reason for most things and I’m trying to think of which players were injured as a result of a tackle from the opposition!

It happens to the best of teams Newcastle, Man City and Spurs have had loads of injuries.

[the_anticlough]

Why do we need no nonsense defenders? That is NOT how we play somewhat is the point? The defence is being exposed by the lack of Matty Palmer who covered and also give them an out ball, we don't have that other than Bostock who is only managing 60 mins and is very one footed. The key is replacing Palmer and potentially a new keeper

Spot on.
How can anyone have watched Notts over the last year and a half and not recognised a very well-defined system of play? We should back him all the way to get as much out of this system as he can. It's our identity and we've put a year and a half's work into building it.
Urgent personnel upgrades and refinements are required for further success.

[jackal2]

There's something I think LW should've done himself...acknowledged in the media, more than he has done, that he asks an awful lot of the defenders, the wide defenders in particular.

I felt sorry for Brindley yesterday with Nemane beaten up the pitch, numbers attacking his flank (like the Walsall winner) and him not being equipped to do very much about it. The players at RCB, LCB are exposed, not only in the games, but their reputations with the fans and across football (the central position is a hiding place relatively that they'd all like to run to). I think Cameron's done OK after a bad start to the season and is getting better, but those who have featured at RCB have been roasted and made to look bad on a regular basis. Not only that, but they see more of the ball than any outfield players virtually, and are expected to start our build up play. We'll see if Macari can do better over the long term, but whoever fills those roles in his system, LW should do more to back them or I could imagine resentment building up.

Fair points. I'd say we ask an awful lot of the centre-backs and wing-backs, taking into account the limitations of players at this level.

One way to protect the wide centre-backs may be to select more defensively-minded wing-backs, but then you lose some attacking threat in a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 set-up.

Dare I say it, the time might be approaching to look at a system that allows our centre-halves to be centre-halves, full-backs to be full-backs and our wingers to be wingers, and in most cases that points towards playing with four at the back (except, say, a 5-4-1).

I'm not one of those who has been clamouring to abandon the back three that has served us so well in the last 18 months, but I think the system is beginning to expose the weaknesses of certain players now they're facing better opposition.

[SmiffyPie]

Spot on.
How can anyone have watched Notts over the last year and a half and not recognised a very well-defined system of play? We should back him all the way to get as much out of this system as he can. It's our identity and we've put a year and a half's work into building it.
Urgent personnel upgrades and refinements are required for further success.

We all recognize the play but how can anyone not see that the defence are having an impact on everything else. We concede ridiculous goals (not ones that are well played by the opposition but by our indecisive play) There is no confidence to play out of defence and provide the midfield with good ball (probably one of the reasons why their heads/impact has dropped?). We need no nonsense (players that are decisive and able) defenders not defenders who pass back to the keeper at the slightest threat and virtually cut close down our style of play. That's a major contributor to the hole we are currently in.

[the_anticlough]

Fair points. I'd say we ask an awful lot of the centre-backs and wing-backs, taking into account the limitations of players at this level.

One way to protect the wide centre-backs may be to select more defensively-minded wing-backs, but then you lose some attacking threat in a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 set-up.

Dare I say it, the time might be approaching to look at a system that allows our centre-halves to be centre-halves, full-backs to be full-backs and our wingers to be wingers, and in most cases that points towards playing with four at the back (except, say, a 5-4-1).

I'm not one of those who has been clamouring to abandon the back three that has served us so well in the last 18 months, but I think the system is beginning to expose the weaknesses of certain players now they're facing better opposition.

Being high in their stand yesterday (not very high, it's still a souped up non-league ground), you could see that LW went to a 4-1-1-4 after his subs, but that was just desperation.

The timing of the January window will determine what happens I think - the system stays, some players change.

Like a good chess player, LW needs more gambits with his system and trust the players to implement them - if this isn't working, we do A, B or C

[durhampie]

LW has to stop playing Nemane as a wing back. Nemane is nothing other than a none league player, and that's his limit. He doesn't track back, he cant defend, and he seldom takes his man on. and he can't cross a ball.
He is a waste of a shirt.

[optipez]

Being high in their stand yesterday (not very high, it's still a souped up non-league ground), you could see that LW went to a 4-1-1-4 after his subs, but that was just desperation.

The timing of the January window will determine what happens I think - the system stays, some players change.

Like a good chess player, LW needs more gambits with his system and trust the players to implement them - if this isn't working, we do A, B or C

I don't think we can get a competitive midfield from any permutation of current players. There just isn't enough energy or physicality in the squad for L2. Even with Palmer we were just getting over the line in tight games, often running out of steam in the second half, Swindon, FGR, Bradford as examples of games we should comfortably win but in the end are glad when the full time whistle blew.

[jackal2]

The timing of the January window will determine what happens I think - the system stays, some players change.

That's probably Luke Williams' ideal scenario. It's tricky though. I'd say finding wing-backs (in particular) good enough to do everything asked of them - at this level - is a real challenge. We're effectively looking for the complete footballer: great engine, pace, good defensive instincts and creative, attacking ability. Most players with an all-round game that good are at a higher level or about to go there.

In the lower leagues, you tend to get players who are good at some things and not so good at others. Nemane on his day is a real threat going forward, but defensively he hates headers and couldn't tackle a paper bag. Chicksen is better defensively but going forward he struggles to beat players and isn't a consistent attacking threat, as you pointed out last season. Jodi Jones uses his footballing brain to survive defensively but our left side has still looked exposed when put under real pressure. TAR looks to have a balance defensive and offensive abilities but is probably playing at his limit in terms of overall skill. Randall we haven't really seen the best of yet, but to be fair he's had an injury interrupted start.

I do wonder whether we'll be able to find wing-backs good enough at this level to provide the quality we need on both sides of the ball, but I suppose if anyone can pull a rabbit out of the bag it's Football Radar. Problem is we probably need two rabbits at least.