OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Thanks for that Andy. Take your point about the 'age of deference'...it was, to an extent a different time, and yet the conspiracy continues. As I understand it, from reliable but undisclosable sources, there remain a number of senior politicians, senior policemen and judges who remain unexposed and unprosecuted from the eighties and the nineties. To an extent, but only to an extent, the Catholic Church has taken steps to address the child abuse which it was complicit in during the same period...beyond that the rest live on, or perhaps not, with reputations intact and that imo, is a disgrace.

At a more first hand level I have lost count of the number of case conferences and reviews that I have sat through where totally indefensible parents/'carers' have 'enjoyed' the protection of the law in the form of some amoral scumbag solicitor. The nature of my job at the time, and I have to accept that I am going back ten years or so now, meant that I, along with many much maligned social workers, had heard graphic accounts of what was actually going on behind closed doors but we were rendered virtually powerless to speak up unless the 'evidence' was utterly overwhelming which often, with more vulnerable and less articulate young people, it wasn't.
The same is unfortunately true right up to the time of any possible court appearance and twice I have been within minutes of giving evidence in court only for these same parents to have 'got to' their children/victims and effectively 'bribed' them to withdraw their evidence.
By coincidence perhaps, I can only think of one incident where a mixed race girl was the victim of her white Catholic grandfather's behaviour and West Indian father's absence/indifference. The rest were universally white but the horrible truth is that child abuse and child ***ual abuse within the family environment is far more widespread than we might like to imagine.

[Andy_Faber]

Thanks for that Andy. Take your point about the 'age of deference'...it was, to an extent a different time, and yet the conspiracy continues. As I understand it, from reliable but undisclosable sources, there remain a number of senior politicians, senior policemen and judges who remain unexposed and unprosecuted from the eighties and the nineties. To an extent, but only to an extent, the Catholic Church has taken steps to address the child abuse which it was complicit in during the same period...beyond that the rest live on, or perhaps not, with reputations intact and that imo, is a disgrace.

At a more first hand level I have lost count of the number of case conferences and reviews that I have sat through where totally indefensible parents/'carers' have 'enjoyed' the protection of the law in the form of some amoral scumbag solicitor. The nature of my job at the time, and I have to accept that I am going back ten years or so now, meant that I, along with many much maligned social workers, had heard graphic accounts of what was actually going on behind closed doors but we were rendered virtually powerless to speak up unless the 'evidence' was utterly overwhelming which often, with more vulnerable and less articulate young people, it wasn't.
The same is unfortunately true right up to the time of any possible court appearance and twice I have been within minutes of giving evidence in court only for these same parents to have 'got to' their children/victims and effectively 'bribed' them to withdraw their evidence.
By coincidence perhaps, I can only think of one incident where a mixed race girl was the victim of her white Catholic grandfather's behaviour and West Indian father's absence/indifference. The rest were universally white but the horrible truth is that child abuse and child ***ual abuse within the family environment is far more widespread than we might like to imagine.

Agreeing totally with your first paragraph.

[Trickytreesreds]

I don't think it was a brave attempt. No point in discussing something that people define differently. Neither was I really 'likening' grooming gangs to 'white *****s'. The point I was making was that the grooming gangs are remembered and used as an 'example' by xenophobes when in fact more child abuse is perpetrated by white males but that goes largely uncommented on.

Actually '*****' is a misnomer anyway, but this is an area where I can claim some previous professional expertise and although I share your concern about the way SOME amongst the Muslim communities, SOME of the police and SOME local politicians conspired to conceal the truth, I think it is dreadfully naive of you to suppose that white perpetrators of child abuse are routinely 'given up' and reviled by their communities. Believe me that is all too often not the case at all...why do you think it took so long to identify what Jimmy Savile and Grenville Janner had been involved in? Why do we still await any sort of conclusion - or even organised investigation - into allegations of historical child abuse by politicians and dignitaries from the eighties...and they honestly are just the more infamous cases.

P.S. No pics thanks Tricky...and I haven't accused you of anything at all. I've offered a definition of 'xenophobia' which you do not seem so very far away from fitting. As for you 'loving' Germany...one can only suppose that you keep your often stated negative opinions on that country to yourself while on your '4 times a year' trips.

Definition of xenophobia
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

If that was the case, I would never leave my back yard, nor would I talk to anyone other my brethren.
I wouldn't try to talk French/German/Spanish or Marsian when travelling

You are sounding like Swale now. That is disappointing.
All I have ever asked for is controlled borders. I'll pay your £5 visa fee, I'll queue at you passport controls.
It doesn't bother me. I expect no less coming this way, if it keeps me out of EU government.

[ramAnag]

Definition of xenophobia
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

If that was the case, I would never leave my back yard, nor would I talk to anyone other my brethren.
I wouldn't try to talk French/German/Spanish or Marsian when travelling

You are sounding like Swale now. That is disappointing.
All I have ever asked for is controlled borders. I'll pay your £5 visa fee, I'll queue at you passport controls.
It doesn't bother me. I expect no less coming this way, if it keeps me out of EU government.

Bored with this now.
1) Over simplified and meaningless 'definition' of xenophobia.
2) Yes you would, you might just be uneasy/uncomfortable.
3) Have you met many Martians? Wouldn't surprise me.
4) No I'm not...I haven't called you a 't**t'.
5) That would be illegal and impossible.
6) The EU don't govern us.

[Trickytreesreds]

Swales. I'm loving your selective memory you are supposed to have put R4j on Ignored on the 13-04 2017 yet you have replied either directly or indirectly to his post 68times since If you don't think saying ( trying to ascertain whether you went to a special school ) is not bullying I don't know what is Don't bother replying because most people on here know exactly what you are

He hasn't put anyone on ignore. Full of ****

[Trickytreesreds]

Bored with this now.
1) Over simplified and meaningless 'definition' of xenophobia.
2) Yes you would, you might just be uneasy/uncomfortable.
3) Have you met many Martians? Wouldn't surprise me.
4) No I'm not...I haven't called you a 't**t'.
5) That would be illegal and impossible.
6) The EU don't govern us.

1.I pumped Xenoophobia into google and that definition came up. Does your interpretation mean it's correct?
2. your opinion alone sunshine. You forget, I have a Canadian national as a girlfriend, living in Germany
3.Martians, no not yet. But I'm open to negotiations
4. As for the **** quote, you aren't as offensive and angry as Swale
5.not sure what 5 is insinuating
6. The EU have been leeching to govern us, in fact all members for decades. It is my whole point. We joined a common market. Not a political union, whose laws/policies/direction is decided by a group of "unelected" persons, who cannot be removed.
The slow draining of sovereignty is being conducted all over Europe. Forget us, the east Europeans like Poland and Hungary aren't having it. They are resisting.
We as a nation, was asked in the 70's if we wanted to be a part of a "common market". True or false?

Since when was we allowing our nations decisions, to be leeched to Europe. Tired or not Ramang, you seem comfortable with this. Many of us do not.

[ramAnag]

1) Try the one in post #2662. It's not 'mine'...it's what Xenophobia actually means.
2) 5 is not insinuating anything...you just can't queue for me...end of.
3) Please stop banging on about what we were asked in the 70's. It's forty five years ago...of course things have changed.
4) For the ump****th time...I'm not comfortable with everything in the EU. Never have been...never pretended to be...but I was a damn site more comfortable with how things were before the referendum than I am now. Okay...we've stood up to EU bureaucracy...but at what cost? Tell me one thing that is looking better now than it was before last June.

[Andy_Faber]

Just a bit of an update by the way you all, on the 'chaos' at airports reported last week

1. The new rules have actually been in place for some time, last week's 'chaos' was very localised and due to poor anticipation of increased volumes
2. In some cases it has actually been QUICKER to get through passport control because the more tardy officials now work to a standard process instead of staring vacantly at passports for a random period
3. Its a Schengen issue, not a Brexit one

The above a virtually direct report from some investigative journalism in the local Mallorca paper (I'm not being a cleverdick, its English-language)

4. My personal experience going through Palma airport was 'business as usual', ie no queue at all anywhere APART FROM, perversely, three quarters of the people on my flight standing and queueing for the best part of an hour for already-allocated seats.

5. The place was FULL of foreigners

[Andy_Faber]

1) Try the one in post #2662. It's not 'mine'...it's what Xenophobia actually means.
2) 5 is not insinuating anything...you just can't queue for me...end of.
3) Please stop banging on about what we were asked in the 70's. It's forty five years ago...of course things have changed.
4) For the ump****th time...I'm not comfortable with everything in the EU. Never have been...never pretended to be...but I was a damn site more comfortable with how things were before the referendum than I am now. Okay...we've stood up to EU bureaucracy...but at what cost? Tell me one thing that is looking better now than it was before last June.

Regarding 4 R, is it just a feeling or can you personally recount things that are worse for you? Serious not flippant Q, and I ask this because IMO a massive swathe of UK folk are likely to be wasting so much money that any change in prices caused by the uncertainty of Brexit would just be lost in the mix. A lot of the time folk just can't be arsed to 'audit' their expenditure to avoid waste (electric, gas and water are almost impossible NOT to save money on with a bit of effort, phone, TV, broadband close behind, overbuying of perishable goods, blah blah) and I don't actually think such people deserve a Brexit voice on matters of economics

[Trickytreesreds]

1) Try the one in post #2662. It's not 'mine'...it's what Xenophobia actually means.
2) 5 is not insinuating anything...you just can't queue for me...end of.
3) Please stop banging on about what we were asked in the 70's. It's forty five years ago...of course things have changed.
4) For the ump****th time...I'm not comfortable with everything in the EU. Never have been...never pretended to be...but I was a damn site more comfortable with how things were before the referendum than I am now. Okay...we've stood up to EU bureaucracy...but at what cost? Tell me one thing that is looking better now than it was before last June.

Stop twisting it. Collins English dictionary on xenophobia.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...ish/xenophobia

You and swale use this way too much

Yes we have stood up to EU bureaucracy.

That in its self is a bonus
1. Now we do what we want
2. We don't have to pay into a bottomless money pit
3.We can say what we want law wise
4. The world is now free to talk to us from a trade perspective

Things are in our court. All the doom predictions haven't arrived from the scum that was Camerons goons. I am happy for this to go on.
I'd like you to consider another thing. Europe is happy. Eastern Europe is rubbing its knuckles with the EU.
Southern Europe is teetering with financial collapse.
I want to be as far away from that as possible. Happy to visit and say hola,guttentag,bonjour. But keep my life out of it.