O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

What have you broken down? You are really missing the point again. Labour would have expected to walk this by election and they did not walk it they held on with the skin of their teeth.

I cant tell you what that result means as you have no idea about voting strategy etc so I will leave you with your own thoughts on it ok.

But Labour did NOT expect to win the by election. The circumstances in the current political climate is completely different with all parties split. In the towns that voted by majority for Leave, Labour will lose a lot of seats and had to work very hard on the doorsteps and phones to hang onto this one. At least whilst Brexit is stinking up the political air, seats will be split 4 ways at least, with the BP challenging strongly in the seats you've identified. But this by election shows that they can be beaten. However, and I say again, as Labour currently stand on Brexit they will continue to struggle in those towns and will be beaten in some.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

Re: you can tell me what the breakdown of the election means: you argue long and hard (and well I might add) that the majority of the couty want to pursue a No Deal, that they voted for No Deal. I am simply asking you where in the Peterborough voting (that you shared the graphic of) you feel that the number of voters indicates that the majority of Peterborough want a No Deal Brexit?

[BigLadonOS]

But Labour did NOT expect to win the by election. The circumstances in the current political climate is completely different with all parties split. In the towns that voted by majority for Leave, Labour will lose a lot of seats and had to work very hard on the doorsteps and phones to hang onto this one. At least whilst Brexit is stinking up the political air, seats will be split 4 ways at least, with the BP challenging strongly in the seats you've identified. But this by election shows that they can be beaten. However, and I say again, as Labour currently stand on Brexit they will continue to struggle in those towns and will be beaten in some.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

Re: you can tell me what the breakdown of the election means: you argue long and hard (and well I might add) that the majority of the couty want to pursue a No Deal, that they voted for No Deal. I am simply asking you where in the Peterborough voting (that you shared the graphic of) you feel that the number of voters indicates that the majority of Peterborough want a No Deal Brexit?

Here we go again pup.

The Labour party cannot put as much effort in to all constituencies if a GE is called any time in the next 12 months. The Peterborough by election had the full throttle of the Labour engine on this seat alone and just managed to hold on to it, meanwhile the Brexit party had very little to no war machine and lost by less than 700 votes. What you are saying is total rubbish because they cannot put 100% of everything they have in the 650 constituencies around the UK all at the same time on the same day.

As stated above, the Brexit party did very little in Peterborough. Labour will have to split its war machine into 650 parts not just 1 attack on 1 constituency in Peterborough.

[rolymiller]

No matter what Brexiteers think about the referendum result they have to remember they won in effect "on penalties" it wasn't a 6-0 thrashing. So, while you might argue that doesn't matter you still won, you have to bear in mind that there is still a massive chunk of the electorate who oppose Brexit. So yes the Tories and Labour will suffer in elections but there are still big swathes of the population who will not want Brexit MPS in the h of P. The arrogance of many Brexiters is absurd they talk as though everyone in this country wants Brexit which is far from the truth. The majority who voted in the referendum did marginally but what of those who didn't vote at all? This leaves aside as well the phrasing of the original question which was flawed in my opinion and was just based on knee jerk politics and xenophobia.

[BigLadonOS]

that they voted for No Deal. I am simply asking you where in the Peterborough voting (that you shared the graphic of) you feel that the number of voters indicates that the majority of Peterborough want a No Deal Brexit?

I myself voted to leave the EU with a deal, but it had to be a deal that left us free of EU rule. I think every leaver would have been happy with that, however, we now find ourselves unable to get a good deal from the EU leaving us with no option than a NO DEAL.

DO NOT read to much in the result last night because it was a by election that was fought on local issues and not national issues and the Brexit party managed to win 29% of the vote apposed to 31% of the local vote.

[BigLadonOS]

No matter what Brexiteers think about the referendum result they have to remember they won in effect "on penalties" it wasn't a 6-0 thrashing. So, while you might argue that doesn't matter you still won, you have to bear in mind that there is still a massive chunk of the electorate who oppose Brexit. So yes the Tories and Labour will suffer in elections but there are still big swathes of the population who will not want Brexit MPS in the h of P. The arrogance of many Brexiters is absurd they talk as though everyone in this country wants Brexit which is far from the truth. The majority who voted in the referendum did marginally but what of those who didn't vote at all? This leaves aside as well the phrasing of the original question which was flawed in my opinion and was just based on knee jerk politics.

The government we have now won on penalties as you say but they still govern the country! Why did the losers not throw the dummy out of the pram over that result? As any horse racing fan will tell you a photo finish still counts as a win even if they won with the thickness of a cig paper.

[ragingpup]

Here we go again pup.

The Labour party cannot put as much effort in to all constituencies if a GE is called any time in the next 12 months. The Peterborough by election had the full throttle of the Labour engine on this seat alone and just managed to hold on to it, meanwhile the Brexit party had very little to no war machine and lost by less than 700 votes. What you are saying is total rubbish because they cannot put 100% of everything they have in the 650 constituencies around the UK all at the same time on the same day.

As stated above, the Brexit party did very little in Peterborough. Labour will have to split its war machine into 650 parts not just 1 attack on 1 constituency in Peterborough.

Blimey, we've got a war machine! Looking forward to using that.

OK, I admire your optimism and its not completely without foundation. As I've conceded,the BP will make significant gains unless 1) the incoming tory leader can somehow convince the BP supporters that a no deal is possible under the tories 2) that this leader by doing so doesn't pull the whole Conservative party apart and 3) Labour change direction and fall on the side of remain. Not what I feel is morally right but we're in uncharted territory and need to stop no deal at all costs if no one will compromise. I heard on politics live today a voting pattern expert day that that 70% of Labour voters at the last election now want Corbyn to fall behind remain. His view (not sure what is evidence base was, but he was a political neutral politics expert of some kind) was that for every 1 leave voter Labour in are losing to the BP, they are losing 3 to Lib Dems and Greens. I think that's about right based on my reading

[rolymiller]

They did indeed but there are still plenty who didn't vote for the tories who are totally against them. The same applies about Brexit. I'm not denying that the Brexiters won the argument numerically but I'm trying to put forward the view that there are still millions of people who will vote against the Brexit Party. The same argument would have applied if the remainers had won narrowly.

Personally I think we have no choice now but to leave the EU but I am seriously concerned that this will turn out to be a monumental ill thought out balls up that will benefit very few people in this country. There is nothing the tory party has done so far to think they could manage a Brexit that will bring prosperity to all. Don't forget this will be a tory brexit or, if the loony Farage does well, a far right Brexit. It is not gonna benefit the likes of Exile, Big Lad or Rolymiller. Why should it? It is going to have a right wing slant on it.

[ragingpup]

The government we have now won on penalties as you say but they still govern the country! Why did the losers not throw the dummy out of the pram over that result? As any horse racing fan will tell you a photo finish still counts as a win even if they won with the thickness of a cig paper.

This analogy sums up the problem. Your Brexit Party iby a very narrow 'win' you on the back of a poor and simplistic vote, is trying to claim everything your own way and walk over the remainder of the country that don't want A No Deal. It's just not going to happen pal. No chance.

[BigLadonOS]

Yet you said earlier 'I would say that the selling off of the steelworks was the bigger factor to be honest with you.'

FFS you again with your bull****. Who bought the steelworks? I will tell you who. koninklijke hoogovens of the Nederlands.

Take a look at this and see where in Europe steel is doing well and you will not be surprised to see the results.
https://www.ft.com/content/04026a18-...0-857e26d1aca4

If it does not load type in google " Europe's steelworks returns to health "

[BigLadonOS]

This analogy sums up the problem. Your Brexit Party iby a very narrow 'win' you on the back of a poor and simplistic vote, is trying to claim everything your own way and walk over the remainder of the country that don't want A No Deal. It's just not going to happen pal. No chance.

I am not saying that the Brexit party will win a GE and I am not saying that the country wants a no deal exit from the EU I am however saying that they need to deliver leaving the EU on the result of the referendum if Democracy is to be saved in this country.

The point I was making is that you have decided from the Peterborough election results that there is no apatite for a no deal Brexit I am saying to you that is a false statement and have given my reasons why I think that is.