O/T Democracy

[ragingpup]

If Labour lose the heartlands then they can never win an election with a majority Raging and so the society we'd like to see won't ever happen .

Remaining in the EU only favours the neoliberal policies we've endured since the 80's , austerity , tax breaks for the wealthy and the shrinking of the state are all policies rubber stamped by the EU .

I'm appalled by the left who hide behind the EU as a means of protecting workers rights when in fact it's just a bunch of opt outs and mere crumbs thrown from Brussels .

What have the left become ? , slaves to the EU project perhaps ? .

I remember a time when we were led by real people who won us rights that still stand today and didn't accept crumbs from a neoliberal project , Bob Crow will be turning in his grave .

If we want a fairer society the first thing to go is the EU followed by the Tories .

Otherwise it's never going to happen .

I respect your points animal, but do you not worry at all that the Tory right, the historical Eurosceptics, simply want to be able to break from the EU in order to cut workers conditions, consumer standards and environmental policies that we are obliged to follow? If not, in your opinion, why are these people so obsessed with breaking free from the EU?

And, in your opinion, what are the fundamental things that EU restrictions on us are that you want to get rid of, and how will it benefit us everyday Joes?

[Exiletyke]

I respect your points animal, but do you not worry at all that the Tory right, the historical Eurosceptics, simply want to be able to break from the EU in order to cut workers conditions, consumer standards and environmental policies that we are obliged to follow? If not, in your opinion, why are these people so obsessed with breaking free from the EU?

And, in your opinion, what are the fundamental things that EU restrictions on us are that you want to get rid of, and how will it benefit us everyday Joes?

How about the fundamental area of paying in about £13 billion p.a & getting about £4 billion back & we were subjected to Camereon's/Osborne's austerity cuts [well some were]
How's that grab you as fundamental?

Workers conditions, consumer standards ?? what planet are you on
I suspect that your conditions in your protected college bubble are not under real threat
& please explain consumer standards [assume you're not referring to consumer rights which you may have noticed companies increasingly circumvent]

[MillerBill]

You can bet your bottom dollar that Macron would change his mind at the last minute and give us more delay time.When the meter is ticking over, all the time @ 1.1 billion cost to us,they'll gladly give us more "damage to business time".These anti democratic pathetic parliamentary plotting pillocks will today deny us having an election this next month.The labour party is shooting itself in the foot and losing support rapidly with all this obstruction to delivering a clean Brexit.

[ragingpup]

How about the fundamental area of paying in about £13 billion p.a & getting about £4 billion back & we were subjected to Camereon's/Osborne's austerity cuts [well some were]
How's that grab you as fundamental?

Workers conditions, consumer standards ?? what planet are you on
I suspect that your conditions in your protected college bubble are not under real threat
& please explain consumer standards [assume you're not referring to consumer rights which you may have noticed companies increasingly circumvent]

By consumer standards, I’m referring to minimum EU health and safety standards, legislation that we abide by to protect consumers.
By worker’s conditions/rights I’m referring to rights that the EU has introduced that help protect workers rights: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7531366.html

Of course, some employers individually will circumvent any standards that are laid down, including exploiting migrant workers. That are breaking these protections and the law. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to do away with the law, just because some people persist in breaking it? Is it?

My question was for animal as he seems to come from a cogent left wing perspective on this, and I would welcome his views on why it might benefit us to move away from these minimum standards that we should aim for, and the worrying thought that the Eurosceptics have the wish to tear up these pesky standards as the central intention for their long standing anti-EU stance.

[BigLadonOS]

I respect your points animal, but do you not worry at all that the Tory right, the historical Eurosceptics, simply want to be able to break from the EU in order to cut workers conditions, consumer standards and environmental policies that we are obliged to follow? If not, in your opinion, why are these people so obsessed with breaking free from the EU?

And, in your opinion, what are the fundamental things that EU restrictions on us are that you want to get rid of, and how will it benefit us everyday Joes?

I hate to bring this to your attention yet again pup but did you not understand that 17.4 million people voted to get out of the EU so I am afraid that your point of (And I quote) "in your opinion, why are these people so obsessed with breaking free from the EU?"

I'm sure that one day you will grow up and learn to listen more.

[ragingpup]

I hate to bring this to your attention yet again pup but did you not understand that 17.4 million people voted to get out of the EU so I am afraid that your point of (And I quote) "in your opinion, why are these people so obsessed with breaking free from the EU?"

I'm sure that one day you will grow up and learn to listen more.

So you think, hand on heart, that "these obsessed people" (to which let's be clear I was referring to the long standing euro-sceptics in the Tory party, not leave voters) are only interested in breaking away from the EU simply because 17.4 million voted for it?

Really? Why were they obsessed with it in when Major referred to them as "*******s" back in the 90s?

I'm just trying to get behind the bottom line as to why this ruling class of people are so obsessed with it. What's in it for them? And more importantly, people behind them that they represent?

[flourbasher]

Quote
The problem with Labours position now is they are saying should they win any upcoming election they will negotiate a new deal and put it back to the people with remaining in the E.U. as an option

They would then campaign to remain in the E.U.

Now is it just me that wouldn't trust anyone adopting that position to go and negotiate a good deal for us




It's worse than that miller172

On the Andrew Marr show this morning Labours shadow chancellor john McDonnell admitted, under pressure from the host, that the option to exit the EU without a deal would not even be on the list of questions on a new referendum.

So already they are planning to skew the questions in favour of remaining and they won't even ask a question they don't like.

[a123]

The Labour Party are the biggest set of traitorous ****s in the history of this country.

Anyone voting for them at the next election should be shot.

We’ll negotiate a deal and then campaign against it, what a set of total and utter ****ing bellends.

[ragingpup]

For gods sake man listen to what he says in the video it's really not that hard to understand.

Please just answer my question. It's strait forward. Do you really think that Camerons failed negotiation is what we were voting on in 2016?

[BigLadonOS]

Please just answer my question. It's strait forward. Do you really think that Camerons failed negotiation is what we were voting on in 2016?

I do not need to answer the question because that is what the PM at the time said. Now run along little boy and pick your dummy up on your way out.