Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Personally I don't get why ageism is still acceptable while other isms aren't.

?it?s an interesting subject - there appears to be a hierarchy of isms, some acceptable some not. Try sitting amongst a bunch of ?right ons? taking the piss out of Scots? habits rituals and accents with a proudly Scottish (but Derby accented) wife. Such people would never consider doing the same with Asians or black Africans

[ramAnag]

?it?s an interesting subject - there appears to be a hierarchy of isms, some acceptable some not. Try sitting amongst a bunch of ?right ons? taking the piss out of Scots? habits rituals and accents with a proudly Scottish (but Derby accented) wife. Such people would never consider doing the same with Asians or black Africans

Not sure about that, AF. No wish to intrude into Mrs.F’s private Calcutta Cup based grief () but if she has a Derby accent, how Scottish is she and how would the bunch you speak of know? Isms always seem worse to me when people are purposefully targeted and ridiculed and as far as I know the Scots have seldom, if ever, been the victims of racism, well not since the 1700’s anyway and even then Bonnie Prince Charlie got a statue in Derby.
Patriotism is a strange one too. Watched Fin Smith’s parents at Twickenham earlier. Both as Scottish as they come I believe, but both proudly jumping for joy as their Warwick born son kicked England to victory.

[SithHappens]

Nice to see Starmer standing up for Ukraine with his upcoming visit to the states this week.

He's handled it well i think so far. I also like what Ed Davey has had to say about it. Badenoch has just used it to try and score political points (what was the point in demanding Starmer jump on a plane to the states when he already had a trip planned?). Farage, well you knew he would be supportive of big Don.

I hope, but am doubtful, Starmer has a successful trip. It's a doubt not because it's Starmer but because i don't think Trump is going to listen to anyone.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure about that, AF. No wish to intrude into Mrs.F’s private Calcutta Cup based grief () but if she has a Derby accent, how Scottish is she and how would the bunch you speak of know? Isms always seem worse to me when people are purposefully targeted and ridiculed and as far as I know the Scots have seldom, if ever, been the victims of racism, well not since the 1700’s anyway and even then Bonnie Prince Charlie got a statue in Derby.
Patriotism is a strange one too. Watched Fin Smith’s parents at Twickenham earlier. Both as Scottish as they come I believe, but both proudly jumping for joy as their Warwick born son kicked England to victory.

I’d guess you’d pop up to disagree but you’d get a gobfull at the very least if you questioned her heritage. My clearly too subtly made point is that the same right-on group (which includes another family member) would have a meltdown if, let’s say, someone with Pakistani heritage was ridiculed in the same way.

[Andy_Faber]

I’d guess you’d pop up to disagree but you’d get a gobfull at the very least if you questioned her heritage. My clearly too subtly made point is that the same right-on group (which includes another family member) would have a meltdown if, let’s say, someone with Pakistani heritage was ridiculed in the same way.

Ps rA the group concerned shouldn?t need to know! Are you suggesting that ridicule of a group (minority or other) is ok when there?s none of them about?

[ramAnag]

I??d guess you??d pop up to disagree but you??d get a gobfull at the very least if you questioned her heritage. My clearly too subtly made point is that the same right-on group (which includes another family member) would have a meltdown if, let??s say, someone with Pakistani heritage was ridiculed in the same way.

Not really questioning, AF. Far too polite, but the whole question of loyalty based on ancestry and heritage fascinates me.

I think the difference is between banter and racism. Imo, and I’m aware that’s all it is, the stuff that goes on involving the four ‘home nations’ is on a par with Lancashire v Yorkshire, Derby v Nottingham or, in the US, NJ v PA. It’s rivalry based on adjacency and, largely, good natured. I don’t recall signs saying ‘No Blacks. No Dogs. No Scots’ and I haven’t heard of anyone being genuinely victimised on the basis of being Scottish.

Victimisation of black, Asian, Chinese and conspicuously Muslim people tends to be more sinister and pernicious, again in my experience.

P.S. No, I’m suggesting that it’s worse when purposefully and knowingly aimed at insulting and abusing others on the basis of their appearance or heritage.

[Trickytreesreds]

Nice to see Starmer standing up for Ukraine with his upcoming visit to the states this week.

He's handled it well i think so far. I also like what Ed Davey has had to say about it. Badenoch has just used it to try and score political points (what was the point in demanding Starmer jump on a plane to the states when he already had a trip planned?). Farage, well you knew he would be supportive of big Don.

I hope, but am doubtful, Starmer has a successful trip. It's a doubt not because it's Starmer but because i don't think Trump is going to listen to anyone.

oh do lose your bias please.

Farage jumped on Trump and defended Zelensky only days ago, saying he is no dictator,

As for starmer, he is as guilty as many others for the Ukraine situation flaring up in the first place. Do you believe Putin woke up one day and said, lets invade Ukraine? No, he and Russia were being squeezed by the EU and various western leaders into committing their crimes.
Farage warned in 2014 what was coming, yet was berrated and howled at. The EU in particular ahould hold its hands up for its part.

In his Telegraph piece, external, Mr Farage wrote: "Don’t blame me for telling the truth about Putin’s war in Ukraine," adding that he wanted to "set the record straight".

"[The] invasion of Ukraine was immoral, outrageous and indefensible. As a champion of national sovereignty, I believe that Putin was entirely wrong to invade the sovereign nation of Ukraine," he wrote.

"Nobody can fairly accuse me of being an appeaser. I have never sought to justify Putin’s invasion in any way and I’m not now.

"But that doesn’t change the fact that I saw it coming a decade ago, warned that it was coming and am one of the few political figures who has been consistently right and honest about Russia’s Ukraine war.

"As I have made clear on multiple occasions since then, if you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised if he responds. And if you have neither the means nor the political will to face him down, poking a bear is obviously not good foreign policy."

[ramAnag]

oh do lose your bias please.

Lol…says the most biased poster on the forum.

[Andy_Faber]

Not really questioning, AF.

Thats EXACTLY what you did rA. 'if she has a Derby accent, how Scottish is she'

I think your comment harks back to your over-focus on Islam-directed intolerance

[ramAnag]

Thats EXACTLY what you did rA. 'if she has a Derby accent, how Scottish is she'

I think your comment harks back to your over-focus on Islam-directed intolerance

No offence intended at all, AF.

If I compare myself, born in England within yards of the Welsh border, spent my first twenty months in Wales, spent every Christmas, Easter and summer at my grand parents’ in Wales but largely brought up by English parents in Lancashire and have spent virtually all the last half century in Derbyshire. Where should my allegiance lie?

Presumably if Mrs.F has a Derby accent (I haven’t btw) she has been brought up in Derby, so how does she define her allegiance?

It’s complicated, that’s all, but I don’t believe I over focus on Islam-directed intolerance, or that it’s genuinely comparable. It’s just particularly prevalent amongst some in society at the moment and, imo, very unhealthy.

P.S. I support England at all sports and Lancashire cricket btw.