O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[great_fire]

I doubted that brexiteers knew what they were voting for all along.

Why did you voted for Remain?

Behind doors deals?

Crooks appointed as Presidents?

Oligarchy instead of Democracy?

A United States of Europe?

A EU army?

Expansion into North Africa and the Middle East?

Your own personal financial interest?

[ragingpup]

Why did you voted for Remain?

Behind doors deals?

Crooks appointed as Presidents?

Oligarchy instead of Democracy?

A United States of Europe?

A EU army?

Expansion into North Africa and the Middle East?

Your own personal financial interest?

Hi Fire,

Sorry to bother you again but can you link me to any credible evidence of substance that backs up that any of these 6 things you listed are actually happening?

[BigLadonOS]

Buried in this thread somewhere is my question of ‘What have the EU stopped us doing or imposed on us, in relation to democracy and sovereignty?’

I received no replies. I’m happy to take them now you mention it. Please list examples of either:

1. Policies or ideas that we would like to undertake ourselves that the EU will not allow us to
2. EU policies that have been imposed on us against our express will that interfere with our democracy of sovereignty

I know that there are very small, infrequent occasions where we have objected against an EU rule coming into play but these are minor and very rare exceptions. Happy to look at any that you can put forward?

I accept that it is not just about the economy – far from it. I completely respect that there are huge concerns about immigration, and especially integration. And I respect the initial vote, but the transition to a deal is paramount for me. For reasons that I have pointed out on here numerous times, in my opinion, leaving the EU will make no difference to those employers exploiting low skilled/low wage imported workforce, and as pointed out above, it will make no difference to what we can and can’t do with our democracy and sovereignty. The only thing that is likely to change, based on reading economic forecasts from Remain and Leave based sources, is that we will suffer an economic downturn. So to limit this, I am happy to leave with a deal to limit the economic downturn.

As also pointed out on here many times, I am no fan of the EU and would be happy to leave with a deal that maintains the main purpose of why it was set up, a common market. I would very much like to stop employers exploiting low wage migrants. But what is the use of gaining this potential power when we don’t even use the powers that we do have with immigration from the rest of the world? There has to be political will, and as far as stopping employers exploiting migrant workers, there is no political will. It’s just an illusion that has been/ is being cynically used to get Leave support. But evidence to propose its take over as a ‘far right’ organisation is as few and far between as the evidence that there is going to be a EU army that we are forced into joining.

Helping out our steel industry for one but yet we could help the banks out when the head of the bank of England was once a big player in the EU. Funny thing that int it.

Our share vote in the EU has gone down since 2008 because of changes made to the previous rules where we had 17%. It went down to just 8%. After yet more changes it has gone back up to 13% but still down on what it was previously and with more countries coming in to the EU the more our % will be diluted which means we will have to find more than 5 other countries to help back us up in any future laws we might appose. Despite being one of the top 3 contributors to the EU monetary fund we will find ourselves getting left further and further down the ladder in influencing EU Law.

Did the remainers know all this and if so why would they vote to have less say in the EU than they have now. I put it to you that all you are basing your so called facts on (not facts by the way) are the ones project fear hammered in to your so ****ing gullible little brain.

[BigLadonOS]

Hi Fire,

Sorry to bother you again but can you link me to any credible evidence of substance that backs up that any of these 6 things you listed are actually happening?

Does this help you.

[BigLadonOS]

And this.

[Exiletyke]

I’ve argued against a further referendum on this thread, so I’m not sure that I count a remainer, but I will address your points:

Staying in the EU, means remaining within the largest trading bloc in the world.

The Euro is a daft project in that it ties economies together in which there are different fiscal policies being run. I’d like to think that 2008 has persuaded the ECB and national governments that allowing member countries to break the rules of the currency by, say, running excessive budget deficits isn’t a good idea, but who knows.

There is no prospect of an EU Army outside the febrile imagination of the Leave campaign. Under Lisbon, it’s establishment would require a unanimous vote by member states and there is no chance of that.

Spanish and Italian employment is falling. Both countries discovered the consequences of running debt driven economies and, in the case of Italy in particular, did not take the difficult decisions that the UK did to address that. Their problem is of their own making, not that of the EU or Germany.

Did any of those difficult decisions impinge on you Cur? Thought not
The difficult decisions were inflicted on those whose could least afford them & the problem was not of their making was it?

[Exiletyke]

And this.

Add Lagarde to that list

[sawmiller]

https://fullfact.org/online/EU-army-conscription/


One without DM bias

[Exiletyke]

https://fullfact.org/online/EU-army-conscription/


One without DM bias

That's about UK being forced to join, not the formation of an EU army which Juncker clearly calls for

[BigLadonOS]

https://fullfact.org/online/EU-army-conscription/


One without DM bias

OMG have you not read what the EU do in these circumstances? As of right now there is no way that the EU can force us in to an EU army because there are no rules in place to do this. However if this is put in to EU law via a vote that gains a 72% pro margin it becomes EU law and we have to accept it if we stay in. I wish people would look in to how the EU get laws past the post so that any veto can be ignored whoever it comes from.

FFS Educate yourself.