OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I very nearly voted out and am a massive eurosceptic, NOT of Europe or Europeans as individuals but of EU, I continue to try to understand the reasoned motivations of all that led them to vote how they did including the new views of RA and of course your own, not sure being ‘astonished’ is how I would treat any reasoned opinion......

‘New views of RA’?
I’m always ‘astonished’ when reasonable people vote for the unreasonable or, in this case, self harm, Andy.
‘Very nearly voted out’...isn’t that just another way of saying you actually voted ‘Remain’?
The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored.
Unlike many - not all - Brexiteers, I don’t for one moment think that the likes of you or MA hold views based on bigotry, ignorance and frustration but I am genuinely surprised when decent and thoughtful folk vote for something which, imo, is so transparently damaging, harmful and divisive.

[roger_ramjet]

"The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored."

Cant be that much of a minority as there is another one here (although according to BaaLocks I probably am bigoted and ignorant!!)

[MadAmster]

‘New views of RA’?
I’m always ‘astonished’ when reasonable people vote for the unreasonable or, in this case, self harm, Andy.
‘Very nearly voted out’...isn’t that just another way of saying you actually voted ‘Remain’?
The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored.
Unlike many - not all - Brexiteers, I don’t for one moment think that the likes of you or MA hold views based on bigotry, ignorance and frustration but I am genuinely surprised when decent and thoughtful folk vote for something which, imo, is so transparently damaging, harmful and divisive.

Compliment much appreciated RA. The whole idea of the US of E is just wrong. They denied from the 60s onwards that a US of E and Euro Army were not the plan. We now know different. The Euro. Not the success it was intended to be because almost half of the countries originally in the Eurozone lied about the state of their economy in order to join. A single tax regime across the EU? Not yet publicly spoken about but the planes are there. The Southern Europeans and the former Eastern bloc countries won't want that as their requirements from life and their government's interference/assistance therein are totally different to yours and mine. I don't want, and never have wanted, a US of E. Hence my no vote in the 70s referendum and I would have voted out this time had I had a vote. As it is, I will, early next year, be looking to start up a new movement in the Netherlands based on doing whatever it takes to stop the EU juggernaut in its tracks and return decision making to a more local level. The current rush towards BIG government (or NWO as the conspiracy theorists would have it) is dangerous to our future liberties and freedoms. EU army well on the way, and now Martin Schulz is calling for a "United States of Europe" by 2025.
As with the list of 10 I posted on another thread on here, I remember when these were "conspiracy theories"..... now fact.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry ramanag got my ma and my ta mixed up

[ramAnag]

Sorry ramanag got my ma and my ta mixed up

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eigh**** months ago...that the outcome would be different.

[Andy_Faber]

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eigh**** months ago...that the outcome would be different.

Banana fingers and forgotten reading glasses. You should hear me playing Stravinsky’s third off sheet music down here on the st Pancras piano.

[Andy_Faber]

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eigh**** months ago...that the outcome would be different.

But he mood of the country is as I mentioned earlier and as reported in the most recent poll, within a margin of error the same as 23/6/16.

The whole aspect of a referendum influenced by the effectiveness of opposing sides is a fail to me, it should have been based on information provided of independently determined outcomes, and the vote should have been based on a range of satisfactions not a yes no.

I still think a significant number of leave voters did so by voting on a different question to that posed (and think even more would do so if asked again). Before I get swaled that is an observation not an opinion

[ramAnag]

But he mood of the country is as I mentioned earlier and as reported in the most recent poll, within a margin of error the same as 23/6/16.

The whole aspect of a referendum influenced by the effectiveness of opposing sides is a fail to me, it should have been based on information provided of independently determined outcomes, and the vote should have been based on a range of satisfactions not a yes no.

I still think a significant number of leave voters did so by voting on a different question to that posed (and think even more would do so if asked again). Before I get swaled that is an observation not an opinion

At last we are in agreement.
My whole point since way before 23/6/16 has always been that the electorate, including myself, are simply not capable of making this ‘decision’. It’s all relative and while I believe I understand and have given the matter more thought than many, I do not believe I have a complete understanding. If I feel like that with regard to my own opinion - and yours, Roger’s and Swale’s etc for that matter - what was the point?
It all became a matter of political convenience. Not only were the electorate not capable of judging the facts...they were never even presented with the facts. Frankly if we settled everything by resorting to simple referendum there would almost certainly be a death penalty, no traffic wardens or speed limit and no VAT or Income Tax...so why accept a referendum on this particularly complex issue?
It’s all become an absolute nonsense so...let’s call the whole thing off...please, before it is too late.

And another thing...I caught a bit of Question Time last night and saw the arch Brexiteer Bernard Jenkin spouting his usual nonsense.
If I remember correctly, the same Mr. Jenkin was the worst offender in the MP’s expenses scandal of a few years ago. Claimed something like £36k more than he was entitled to I believe. If anyone in any other walk of life had done that I would imagine they’d have, quite rightly, lost their job...what makes MP’s any different?

[roger_ramjet]

So the white smoke is rising, Terry May has got a Black Friday discount down to 35-39 billion on deferred terms! I don't suppose for one minute it is a "final form agreement" but it is enough of one to start moving on towards "what we get" rather than "what we give". Now if only the insoluble Ireland aspects can be resolved things "May" be on track for March 2019.

Flags at half mast in Chateaux Ramanag and Swaledale?

[ramAnag]

So the white smoke is rising, Terry May has got a Black Friday discount down to 35-39 billion on deferred terms! I don't suppose for one minute it is a "final form agreement" but it is enough of one to start moving on towards "what we get" rather than "what we give". Now if only the insoluble Ireland aspects can be resolved things "May" be on track for March 2019.

Flags at half mast in Chateaux Ramanag and Swaledale?

Possibly her ‘finest hour’ Rog...but the previous one was winning the race to be PM and then look what happened.
It’s pissed Farage off which can only ever be a good thing and JC sounds a tad bitter too.
Long way to go...bit like our promotion campaign.
Obviously I’d prefer a good deal but I still wish we didn’t need one at all.