Milkshake Lightweight?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Please don't bother Alto with it BT, I thrive on abuse, what's the point of posting on a msgboard if you can't annoy people enough for them to have a pop at you every now and then.

Really no point whatsoever sinkov. Alto is away for at least a month sunning himself in South Africa, leaving just one other moderator and he is totally phooking useless. Best let it rest eh?

[sinkov]

Really no point whatsoever sinkov. Alto is away for at least a month sunning himself in South Africa, leaving just one other moderator and he is totally phooking useless. Best let it rest eh?

Aye, don't bother him, he's too busy re-writing history anyway.

[Norder]

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.....we managed for years to trade,travel and live under our own rule quite happily , Why can’t we just do that now ?

thats right army.......whatever the socio economic dictates of the system - it seemed that we were allowed the freedom to turn our own soil and reap from it without Plunder - we the people, had the Power...it brought us respect, held us together, as whoever was given mandate to manage our inheritance - realised that theirs was but a temporary arrangement, their term and Duty being, to serve us....not some Power sapping wealth grabbing Plutocrat....Can dream.
- so what happens if/when the Power comes home - in who's house will it reside, how far the split...to a rebirth of "our" design - or a continuation of them and theirs ?
Another creeping nuisance that needs approach is ....with a future increasingly channeled toward technological reliance, where will this globally attatched reality take us...to lives combined, isolated from the physical and placed under the interconnected control of the all seeing all knowing "smart" grid....How then will this next level Power be used....and how much will We allow it...to use us ?

[1959_60]

I have yet to see one conclusive good reason for leaving the EU.

CONTROLLING IMMIGRATION - Farage makes a big play on this. In reality we have it in our power (as other European countries already do) to control immigration from other EU countries. But we choose not to.
And also in reality, the vast majority of immigrants come from outside the EU - leaving the EU will do bugger all about this.
Personally, I am with BT - I favour practically open borders worldwide.

TAKING BACK CONTROL - What does this actually mean? Watching our Parliament in action is embarrassing. The EU actually does stuff - and it is for the benefit of us all. People complain about EU laws, but which ones do you actually object to? I remember before we joined the common market the amount of sub standards, and in some cases, outright dangerous, stuff that we imported. If you saw a sticker saying "Made in China" or "Made in Singapore" you just knew that it would be tat. Foreign food from Argentina (for example) was a health hazard - remember the polio epidemic in Blackburn in around 1970?
EU legislation ensures that our imports are of a decent standard and safe. Do you want to ignore these regulations and start importing cheap tat again? Many Arthur Daley's would love it.

ECONOMICS AND TRADE - I think the overwhelming majority accept that our current trading deal with the EU, and by extension, with many other nations, will be severely hit by leaving the EU and our nation will be poorer.
Many think this is a price worth paying. But every facet of our country is dependent on the strength of our economy. If we have less brass to spend then services such as the NHS, education, defence etc etc must inevitably suffer.

SECURITY - We would lose out on every aspect. Joint working between the various security forces, cross-border collaboration etc. And the fact that we are working in partnership with our European allies and not in competition with them makes the threat of tension between nations a hell of a lot less likely. Just imagine the rhetoric if someone like Nigel was ever our PM. Not good.
Not only that, but many people are willing to risk the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland to obtain a result that will make themselves and their families worse off. Sorry, I find it bizarre.

FREEDOM - It is terrific that we are able to visit, live in and work in other countries with minimal fuss. The younger generation in particular celebrate this. I see no advantage of pulling up the drawbridge, shutting our door and denying this right to many people who wish to experience different cultures.
Why are so many people intent on being insular and taking this away from people who enjoy it (mainly the younger generations)?

We have been arguing the toss for years now but I have not been convinced by any points made by the Brexiteers.

[army88]

The clerical Muslim Abu who we paid thousands to support him and his family , and then couldn’t send him back for fear he’d be killed at home is a start.
European law said ( against his human rights ) you can’t do that so we funded him for two more years to radicalise more terrorist in our country.
Just one that sprung to mind when we clearly wanted him out and they decided he could stay.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I have yet to see one conclusive good reason for leaving the EU.

CONTROLLING IMMIGRATION - Farage makes a big play on this. In reality we have it in our power (as other European countries already do) to control immigration from other EU countries. But we choose not to.
And also in reality, the vast majority of immigrants come from outside the EU - leaving the EU will do bugger all about this.
Personally, I am with BT - I favour practically open borders worldwide.

TAKING BACK CONTROL - What does this actually mean? Watching our Parliament in action is embarrassing. The EU actually does stuff - and it is for the benefit of us all. People complain about EU laws, but which ones do you actually object to? I remember before we joined the common market the amount of sub standards, and in some cases, outright dangerous, stuff that we imported. If you saw a sticker saying "Made in China" or "Made in Singapore" you just knew that it would be tat. Foreign food from Argentina (for example) was a health hazard - remember the polio epidemic in Blackburn in around 1970?
EU legislation ensures that our imports are of a decent standard and safe. Do you want to ignore these regulations and start importing cheap tat again? Many Arthur Daley's would love it.

ECONOMICS AND TRADE - I think the overwhelming majority accept that our current trading deal with the EU, and by extension, with many other nations, will be severely hit by leaving the EU and our nation will be poorer.
Many think this is a price worth paying. But every facet of our country is dependent on the strength of our economy. If we have less brass to spend then services such as the NHS, education, defence etc etc must inevitably suffer.

SECURITY - We would lose out on every aspect. Joint working between the various security forces, cross-border collaboration etc. And the fact that we are working in partnership with our European allies and not in competition with them makes the threat of tension between nations a hell of a lot less likely. Just imagine the rhetoric if someone like Nigel was ever our PM. Not good.
Not only that, but many people are willing to risk the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland to obtain a result that will make themselves and their families worse off. Sorry, I find it bizarre.

FREEDOM - It is terrific that we are able to visit, live in and work in other countries with minimal fuss. The younger generation in particular celebrate this. I see no advantage of pulling up the drawbridge, shutting our door and denying this right to many people who wish to experience different cultures.
Why are so many people intent on being insular and taking this away from people who enjoy it (mainly the younger generations)?

We have been arguing the toss for years now but I have not been convinced by any points made by the Brexiteers.

Your EU orientated jingoism is nearly as nauseating as BoJo & Farage's Make Britain Great again bullshi-t!

[map]

"Made in China" or "Made in Singapore" - you just knew that it would be tat."
I think that you are mistaken. Do a little research on where, for example, your electrical goods, T.V., computer, mobile phone, etc. are made or where the components are made.
I wonder how many British companies produce / manufacture similar goods and export them around the world ?

[1959_60]

Map, i was talking about the cheap dangerous tat we used to import from these countries before we joined the Common Market.

I think everyone of a certain age will know what I mean.

Because of the much maligned EU regulations, members of the EU wouldn't be allowed to put such stuff on the market these days.

I'm not saying for a minute that China and Singapore produce tat these days, but if we left the EU and had our own trading standards, then we could import cheap rubbish from anywhere in the world - and there are plenty of wide boys who will make a killing as a result.
If you want to tear up the current EU trading standard laws and import cheap rubbish once more then there will be consequences. Like I say, food standards are much lower in other countries - do you really want to put that on the British markets because it is cheaper?

[sinkov]

I have yet to see one conclusive good reason for leaving the EU.

CONTROLLING IMMIGRATION - Farage makes a big play on this. In reality we have it in our power (as other European countries already do) to control immigration from other EU countries. But we choose not to.
And also in reality, the vast majority of immigrants come from outside the EU - leaving the EU will do bugger all about this.
Personally, I am with BT - I favour practically open borders worldwide.

TAKING BACK CONTROL - What does this actually mean? Watching our Parliament in action is embarrassing. The EU actually does stuff - and it is for the benefit of us all. People complain about EU laws, but which ones do you actually object to? I remember before we joined the common market the amount of sub standards, and in some cases, outright dangerous, stuff that we imported. If you saw a sticker saying "Made in China" or "Made in Singapore" you just knew that it would be tat. Foreign food from Argentina (for example) was a health hazard - remember the polio epidemic in Blackburn in around 1970?
EU legislation ensures that our imports are of a decent standard and safe. Do you want to ignore these regulations and start importing cheap tat again? Many Arthur Daley's would love it.

ECONOMICS AND TRADE - I think the overwhelming majority accept that our current trading deal with the EU, and by extension, with many other nations, will be severely hit by leaving the EU and our nation will be poorer.
Many think this is a price worth paying. But every facet of our country is dependent on the strength of our economy. If we have less brass to spend then services such as the NHS, education, defence etc etc must inevitably suffer.

SECURITY - We would lose out on every aspect. Joint working between the various security forces, cross-border collaboration etc. And the fact that we are working in partnership with our European allies and not in competition with them makes the threat of tension between nations a hell of a lot less likely. Just imagine the rhetoric if someone like Nigel was ever our PM. Not good.
Not only that, but many people are willing to risk the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland to obtain a result that will make themselves and their families worse off. Sorry, I find it bizarre.

FREEDOM - It is terrific that we are able to visit, live in and work in other countries with minimal fuss. The younger generation in particular celebrate this. I see no advantage of pulling up the drawbridge, shutting our door and denying this right to many people who wish to experience different cultures.
Why are so many people intent on being insular and taking this away from people who enjoy it (mainly the younger generations)?

We have been arguing the toss for years now but I have not been convinced by any points made by the Brexiteers.

It's all very interesting 59, I could take issue with you on most of the above, but it's all academic now, we had a referendum three years ago and voted to leave the EU, so what's the point ?

I'm much more interested in your views on democracy, especially the over-arching principal, that in any democratic country the losers of a freely held democratic vote accept the result. And even more important, once that principal has been ditched, what are the prospects for that country continuing to exist as a fully functioning democracy ? And when you come to the only logical conclusion, that democracy cannot survive in such circumstances, what do you envisage replacing it ?

[map]

Whatever happened to the concept of "Global Citizenship" map?

It does not exist unless you have money or.....wish to live in this country and are not English/British !