O/T Your GP doesn't want you to know this..

[kempo]

Ahora vete a la mierda

Not nice to use ***ually explicit swear words on a public message board

[Geetarman]

Not nice to use ***ually explicit swear words on a public message board

I'm sure that few will understand. Have you ever had a ban from Millersmad?

[kempo]

I'm sure that few will understand. Have you ever had a ban from Millersmad?

Big rich banned me about 7 or 8 times " because he could"..Well actually there was another reason but best if I let sleeping dogs lie and don't mention club legends.

[kempo]

Just a reminder lads...Ask your GP about this and pop up the replies on here.

Of course he/she won't be around until Monday and of course after 23 attempts at phoning there will be no appointments for 2 weeks and that's to see the trainee...You are only allowed one condition per appointment so you may have to leave after the first question.

Of course you could try the old trick of the regulars and tell the receptionist that you have chest pain...Be careful with this one or you may get an ambulance sent to you so be a bit vague and say it sort of burns a bit rather than pressure...

Good luck and I await some classic excuses from your GPs

[great_fire]

The drug companies are even worse.

More people commit suicide due to taking SSRI anti-depressants than are saved from suicide by taking them, they are also known to make people psychotic and have been implicated in mass murders especially school shootings.

Then there's the anti-psychotic and statins drugs both of which increase the risk of diabetes significantly & once you have that there's no cure, but the drugs companies have lots of new customers for their diabetes drugs.

[kempo]

You should look at the relationship between drug companies and doctors...Free gifts...Meals out...Payments for talks promoting their drugs...trips abroad...and so on and so on.

The first line of your second paragraph great fire is not correct..SSRIs have certainly been linked with increase in suicide ideation and risk in a small percentage of users but they are a very effective treatment for depression.

With all drugs both parties need to consider the risk/ reward when drugs are prescribed.

Statins are very useful drugs and there is clear evidence of substantial reduction in stroke risk and cardiovascular risk.

Modern antipsychotics have far less severe side effects than the old ones and are effective in suppressing psychotic symptoms although they do suppress brain function generally contrary to some of the claims of their makers however they are a very useful treatment.

There is a school of thought that antipsychotics cause more harm than good and that psychosis tends to resolve with tender loving care within a family setting or loving group but on balance and used correctly I would say they are very useful in treatment.

Unfortunately there has been a trend in using the modern antipsychotic for other mental health symptoms that would not fit in with the term psychosis.

[great_fire]

The first line of your second paragraph great fire is not correct..SSRIs have certainly been linked with increase in suicide ideation and risk in a small percentage of users but they are a very effective treatment for depression.

Not according to psychiatry professor and former secretary of the British Association for Psychopharmacology, David Healy

Healy has spent years warning of the alleged dangers of antidepressants and other drugs. He notes that 25 years ago about 1 in 10,000 patients in Britain received a diagnosis of depression; today between half and a fifth of us will receive the diagnosis during our lifetimes.

“The clinical trials show that more people commit suicide on these drugs than are saved by them,” he says. “The same applies to homicide.”

Healy estimates that across Europe up to 2,500 suicides every year and a similar number of violent episodes could be triggered by reactions to antidepressants. The figures, he claims, are broadly similar in America.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...ills-cvrlb6nqt

[kempo]

I don't know him but he obviously has an agenda.

His 1 in 10000 figure is ridiculously wrong and questions his credibility.

I cannot work out exactly what sort of clinical trial would support his assertion and I doubt the validity of his statement.

I cannot be as certain about the second line but the 1 in 10000 is laughingly incorrect.

I suppose anyone can say anything if they don't provide the evidence...The problem comes with peer assessment of the assertions and things often look different then.

I certainly think your points are valid to stimulate thought and discussion but the problems I feel are exaggerated.

I have used SSRIs for many years ie prescribed and have seen startling improvements with limited side effects.

They are overused I agree and depression may well over r diagnosed but who has the time for talking therapies.

Try getting in for CBT.

[great_fire]

GPs are doling out SSRIs like smarties, usually citalopram because it's cheap, lot cheaper than therapy.

How many of the people given then actually need them?

I know from my own experience that certainly during first 6 to 8 weeks of taking them you will feel worse, extremely restless and more depressed, this is when people have committed suicide, others have become psychotic and even homicidal.

I also think that the author of the article Katinka Blackford Newman has some good points (despite dressing like she's 25 when she's 52, which does make you question her judgement somewhat).

[kempo]

As I say great fire your underlying points stimulate valid discussion but there is far too much exaggeration of the negatives..

I wouldn't even bother to read anything your pharma man says if he really believes 1 in 10000...

As doctors we would dismiss him immediately and question his sanity..It is utter nonsense.

The risk of SSRIs increasing suicidal thoughts has been known about for a long time and patients should be warned to stop if this happens within the first few weeks of starting.

The incidence is low and I have only seen it on 2 or 3 occasions in many years of prescribing.

The homicidal thing is recent and I know little of the evidence but I do know that I have not seen a single patient on SSRIs convicted of homicide that's with prescribing experience of too many years to think about.

There are risks as with all drugs

Are they over prescribed.....yes

Are they effective...yes very much so

Exercise and talking therapy together is as good for mild to moderate depression but where are the talkers?