Amber Rudd

[sinkov]

You choose some unconvincing examples BT.

This is from the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

"UK public spending on health has increased considerably over time "

"Figure 1 shows how UK public spending on health has increased in real terms (after accounting for economy-wide inflation), and as a share of national income, between 1955– 56 and 2015–16. Real spending increased from £12.8 billion in 1955–56 to £143.7 billion in 2015–16 (2017–18 prices). This growth in spending is larger than the increase in national income over this period. As a result, health spending increased from 2.8% of national income in 1955–56 to 7.4% in 2015–16. Health spending also increased at a quicker rate than other government spending. Health spending therefore grew from 7.7% of public spending in 1955–56 (or 11.2% of public service spending) to 18.4% of public spending in 2015–16 (29.9% of public service spending).

Growth in spending has varied over time, with large increases usually followed by smaller ones.1 Over the whole period, spending grew by 4.1% per year on average. Spending since 2009–10 has grown at a much slower pace. Between 2009–10 and 2015–16, health spending has grown by 1.3% per year on average, with spending under the coalition government (2009–10 to 2014–15) growing at only 1.1%."

Spending on the NHS up under the Tories, no austerity there.

This is from Fullfact.org

"This year the top 1% will pay 27% of all the income tax the government takes in. That’s down slightly on last year, but higher than the share in previous years."

The rich are paying more income tax under the Tories than they ever did under Labour. Come on BT, you can do better than this.

[1959_60]

If we are talking about the NHS and Social care, then comparisons of funding from decades ago are pretty meaningless.

50 years ago some of the procedures which are pretty minor today were life threatening.

50 years on we have access to unbelievable technology, drugs and methodology which in those days would look like science fiction.

50 years ago people who had dementia etc were locked up in mental institutions - if they were treated at all. mental illness was an embarrassment and carried a stigma.

BUT...all this technology, drugs etc is very expensive and will continue to beso as they evolve.

The NHS/social care "customer base" has got a lot bigger.

There is no silver bullet here. The truth is, if we wish to give everyone the best possible treatment and care then we would have to keep increasing funding, almost exponentially.

There will always be a pay off here about how much the public is willing to spend, and what level of service is acceptable.

This should definitely not used as a political football any more. The various parties should agree to work together and reach a consensus.

[oldcolner]

Silly boy sinkov!

It's not how much they spend, it's what they spend it on!

If I spend £100 billon on the NHS and you spend £100 billion to provide tax breaks for the richest 5% of the population, it's not really the same is it?[

BT your figures are off the wall! What tax breaks are being given to the richest 5%. Please explain.

Some real facts
NHS net expenditure has increased from £78.881 billion in 2006/071 to £120.512 billion in 2016/17.
Planned expenditure for 2017/18 is £123.817bn and for 2018/19 is £126.269bn.

So you want to almost double it, dare I ask which magic money tree you will use!

Throwing money at a problem often causes even more problems as people have to spend it and often they can’t, eg there isn’t a magic doctor tree and they take 7 years to grow, so they buy things they don’t need to try and get the money out the door.

[oldcolner]

59
I agree we need to rethink the NHS. The original idea was by setting it up people would get better and need less spent on them so funding would reduce. The population was 49.5m in 1947. It was 65m last June. Many of the incomers have poor health.
In 1947 no one sued anyone for care errors. By 2020 the NHS will be paying out £3.2bn a year in claims. Every 1% extra in pay to NHS staff in England costs £500m. So, for that negligence money 50,000 empty NHS posts could be filled or staff given pay rises.
We spend far too much on high tech hospitals and not enough on prevention of illnesses or promoting healthy living.
More than 2 in 3 adults are now considered to be overweight or have obesity. Many of these will develop diabetes and lots of complications. We spend millions probably billions on drug misusers, alcoholics and ex smokers. We spend £2k a day on intensive care beds for children born prematurely who may spend months there when they will never have a normal life, stopping other children getting surgery that need an Intensive Care bed for recovery. In the old days they wouldn’t have survived.

It has been found in Scotland that just 2% of the population (100,000 people) use 50% of the drug bill and account for 75% of acute hospital inpatient bed days.
http://ihub.scot/media/1216/20170213...i-paper-12.pdf

[1959_60]

Agree OC.

The NHS was superb in 1948, but we are using the same model in 2018.

It has totally different challenges now, but the politicians are too scared to admit it and do something about it.

And ALL the parties need to come clean on this, otherwise it will be a perpetual political football.

The Tories pledge £x so Labour pledge £x + 1. It is too important an issue to play games with.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Our caring, sharing Tories strike again...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...MCNEWEML6619I2

[sinkov]

Let me get this right, this couple's visa had run out so they were in the country illegally. They were taken to Heathrow for their flight back to SA where the lady collapsed before boarding the plane. An immigration official allegedly was not convinced about the lady's condition and was rude towards her, nevertheless they were not put on the plane but held in a detention centre overnight and released the following morning. She died five days later.

A very sad case, a rude immigration official and a bureaucratic mix up compound the tragedy, but what has this got to do with the Tories ? And I'll guarantee the rude immigration officer was a Labour voter, he must have been, there are no Tories voters within 20 miles of London, and all LibDems are touchy, feely, sharing, caring people who couldn't behave like that.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

We live in a globalised world where people can travel right across the other side of the globe within 20 hours.

Coterminous boundaries are the blight of civilization.

Detention centres (i.e. prisons) are not the answer to solving the vexing issue of sovereign spatiality.

How's about our global leaders start thinking about free movement of people instead of building walls?

If you can sustain yourself without host nation intervention then bring down the barriers and stop people from dying in these godawful prisons.

[sinkov]

We live in a globalised world where people can travel right across the other side of the globe within 20 hours.

Coterminous boundaries are the blight of civilization.

Detention centres (i.e. prisons) are not the answer to solving the vexing issue of sovereign spatiality.

How's about our global leaders start thinking about free movement of people instead of building walls?

If you can sustain yourself without host nation intervention then bring down the barriers and stop people from dying in these godawful prisons.

Coterminous boundaries ? Sovereign spatiality ? What meds you on this morning BT ? And the EU is currently running an experiment in the free movement of people. The UK has said no thanks we're off, and it isn't playing out too well in other EU countries either.

There's a very good argument to be made that, far from being the blight of civilisation, boundaries are the very bedrock of civilisation. But what has any of this got to do with the Tories ?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Everything has to do with the Tories.

They are nothing but an imperialist, colonialist, slave dealing, xenophobic, trigger happy, bomb happy, duplicitous, self serving set of arseholes.

By heck, I feel a lot better after writing that!