Where have all the old guys gone?

[ramAnag]

The build up is irrelevant to whether or not the ref should have awarded a pen. But it's interesting you use the expression 'make the most of it'. That's one of a family of modern day euphemisms to rationalise gamesmanship in football. Others are 'made a meal of it', 'simulation', 'take one for the team', 'professional foul', etc. They all amount to the same thing...cheating. Pure and simple. But such behaviour is not confined to Derby players, it's all part of the modern game. The sad thing is that during the course of the game we the fans (including me) demand the ref give our team decisions in our favour even though it's patently obvious he's been conned.

‘Make the most of it’, in this instance indicates my opinion that Lawrence probably could have stayed on his feet but opted to go to ground in an effort to make it clear that that the defender had caught his standing foot.

That’s not cheating...had there not been any contact it would have been, but there was contact, albeit slight. We, as a team, have come unstuck many times recently when much more blatant ‘penalties’ haven’t been given and we’ve paid the price, so I don’t blame Lawrence for, as I described, ‘making the most of it’.

He endeavoured to leave the referee in no doubt that he had been caught...had there been no contact I would honestly argue that he should have been punished retrospectively but, imo, the defenders boot caught Lawrence’s and that’s all there is to it...no cheating, no retrospective punishment...and the ref wasn’t conned.

[GUNTERYY36]

‘Make the most of it’, in this instance indicates my opinion that Lawrence probably could have stayed on his feet but opted to go to ground in an effort to make it clear that that the defender had caught his standing foot.

That’s not cheating...had there not been any contact it would have been, but there was contact, albeit slight. We, as a team, have come unstuck many times recently when much more blatant ‘penalties’ haven’t been given and we’ve paid the price, so I don’t blame Lawrence for, as I described, ‘making the most of it’.

He endeavoured to leave the referee in no doubt that he had been caught...had there been no contact I would honestly argue that he should have been punished retrospectively but, imo, the defenders boot caught Lawrence’s and that’s all there is to it...no cheating, no retrospective punishment...and the ref wasn’t conned.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Lawrence could have stayed on his feet but opted to go to ground then that's cheating. I can't help wondering if you'd be making the same justification had it been a Forest player

[MadAmster]

If you watch the tackle again you will see that the defender goes to tackle with his right foot and misses as Lawro sent him the wrong way, and his momentum takes him past Tom, at which point he moves his left leg back towards our man and makes contact. Tom didn't move his foot towards the contact, nor does he leave it dangling there as bait. His movement is natural, but there was definite intent from the defender, so definite penalty, and maybe even a yellow card. That he was already on a yellow is possibly why the second didn't appear.

[ramAnag]

‘If Lawrence could have stayed on his feet but opted to go to ground then that’s cheating’.

No it absolutely isn’t. Week in week out you hear commentators ask ‘would that have been a penalty if he’d gone down?’
It’s fine lines I accept, but...diving when there is no contact is cheating...no debate, just as collapsing in a heap pretending you’ve been hit is.
Going down when a player has been leant on, pushed slightly or marginally tripped has been how it is for as long as I can remember...some you win, some you lose.
Best, Greaves, Lineker, Shearer, Messi, Salah, Aguero, Kane, Hazard etc have all done it...they regularly get manhandled by defenders in the area so they don’t always stay on their feet when they feel contact. Then it’s up to the officials, that’s what happened yesterday, although I’ll concede I don’t expect Tom Lawrence’s name to be mentioned in such exalted company again.

Even with VAR I think yesterday’s decision would have been difficult. IMO, it’s as MA describes and there was contact, but as you say we’ll probably have to agree to differ.

[Andy_Faber]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Lawrence could have stayed on his feet but opted to go to ground then that's cheating. I can't help wondering if you'd be making the same justification had it been a Forest player

Got to agree on that one, but we are SOOOO far away from that level of honesty now...

[GUNTERYY36]

We should take into account the ref could not possibly perform this detailed analysis there and then in an instant. All we can know for sure is that it was much easier for him to give a penalty. To wave away the incident would have meant a massive crowd (and ten players) a trifle miffed. It would have taken Pierluigi Collina to ignore everyone and give a decision purely on its merits.

[Ram59]

There is a close up gif on another forum which clearly shows that the contact twists Lawrence's left foot.

Instead of planting his left foot properly on the ball of the foot, it caused his foot to come down on the inside of his big toe. I would defy anyone to continue running and changing direction after such an intervention.

[MadAmster]

Stop that vid at 1:12 in and then you know it was a penalty.

[Rob_the_Ram]

Rattea, Angry Ram, etc....
Still lurking?

etc.... here!

Been looking off and on for months but forgot my password.

Just been trying a few of my old passwords and “BINGO” - That didn’t work either.

But remembered it at last.

[AngryRam]

Hard to respect ignorant ****s!

There you go.. The reason not many post.. Way to go yoof.