O/T Are any of our more outrageously right wing contributors...

[ragingpup]

Having jobs tends to be a good thing for people. Companies choosing to pay taxes in the UK makes money available for public services. These things are obvious.

You didn't answer re: your age. You have mentioned that you have a young child. My guess is that you hadn't been born in the golden age that you believe existed before 1979 or were so young as to have no meaningful memories?

So why do you say that this has "nothing to do with the 'trickle down' effect"? Sounds like you are arguing that lower corporation taxes increases jobs and prosperity to me. Hence corporation tax producing the perceived trickle down effect?

[KerrAvon]

Cool. Let's call it a trickle down effect then if you prefer.

For me, trickle down has always referred to the notion that the wealth of those at the top of the earnings pile benefits those at the bottom (which, of course it does through the tax they pay and the economic activity that their spending creates).

Any thoughts on your age? Ball Park figure?

[ragingpup]

You didn't answer re: your age. You have mentioned that you have a young child. My guess is that you hadn't been born in the golden age that you believe existed before 1979 or were so young as to have no meaningful memories?

Born in 67 so was at school during the 70s. Yes, we can learn from the economic performance in that period. But, much as I agree that we should look for a 'sweet spot' in all tax rates that benefit us as a society, and that raising any taxes simply on dogmatic terms is a bad idea, I think our previous discussions on this (and let's not do it again) I don't think we should cut (out raise for that matter) taxes without evidence of benefits that it brings us all. Such evidence for extremely low (compared to competitors) corporation tax, in my experience is lacking and is anything other than speculative. For example I've just been looking for tangible benefits of the Irish tax rate to the citizens and services of Ireland, increase in overall corporation tax revenues and can't find anything.

[KerrAvon]

52 and you've got a daughter aged 6 or 7? You sly old dog.

Haven't looked in detail, but I have found this link for you:

https://www.buzz.ie/news/ireland-living-standard-299446

[KerrAvon]

P.s. I wasn't being ageist when I called you old, so cool your jets, big fellow.

[John2]

I think you have misrepresented the facts again John, the £6bn will be the assumed loss not taking into account revenue generated from the lower rate which will enable investment which in turn will see VAT, income tax, NI and possible higher forecast revenue from Corp Tax if profits increase as a result.

Stick to ******* and leave economics to those who know

lol, I stated "HMRC estimates next years tax cut will cost the government over £6bn in revenue".

That's literally exactly the facts, no misrepresentation. It's you who appears to not know what you're talking about.

I'm fully aware of the arguments and am actually in favour in many instances of lowering taxes to stimulate the economy. For a lefty socialist I'm surprisingly also a free market capitalist (not mutually exclusive) in most industries as the best solution to maximise efficiency and productivity, and I also support the use of taxes as levers to stimulate the economy in many instances.

I'm evidence based. The problem comes when people ideologically cling on to "highest taxes possible are essential to make the rich pay their share of public services", or "taxes are too high, we need to cut them as close to zero as possible".

GF seemed to be leaning toward the latter, so I tried to inspire nuanced discussion on where the middle ground lays. Other contributors seem to have done a decent job tackling this, but you appear a little out of your depth again.

As much as reduced taxes can stimulate an economy and result in a higher gain, there are undoubtedly diminishing returns. It's telling that George Osbourne's old advisors are expressing shock that we're heading towards a 17% rate when it appears to be almost impossible to justify the cost to the treasury for the limited benefits it is expected to yield.

If all countries start competing with the approach of nations like Ireland you get a slippery slope race the the bottom and that certainly isn't desirable. It's an area it would be nice if the EU was a bit stronger on to prevent such 'undercutting'.

[KerrAvon]

I largely agree with that, John. Determining the 'right' level of taxation certainly needs to be evidence based as opposed to ideologically driven (but there's also some guess work involved). That's what worries me about the ideologues who currently head up the Labour Party.

You don't sound much like a lefty socialist to me.

[Exiletyke]

I largely agree with that, John. Determining the 'right' level of taxation certainly needs to be evidence based as opposed to ideologically driven (but there's also some guess work involved). That's what worries me about the ideologues who currently head up the Labour Party.

You don't sound much like a lefty socialist to me.

Admitting you're a lefty socialist eh?
That's buggered it now John with Kerr

[ragingpup]

52 and you've got a daughter aged 6 or 7? You sly old dog.

Haven't looked in detail, but I have found this link for you:

https://www.buzz.ie/news/ireland-living-standard-299446

I'm an old dog alright. And my wife's a complete bitch!

Nothing in this article looking at cause and effect of the tax reduction. What other factors at play? Not saying it isn't a factor though.

I agree with John above. Needs to be evidence based and looking around me, walking through streets, reading about counsels struggling to make ends meet, people struggling to make ends meet despite working long hours, people blaming other groups of people for their experience of poor services. Never known life so bleak for your average working folk. Doesn't appear to be much to show for decades of tax cuts and economy stimulation.

But we've linked each other to so many pro and con articles on benefits/ills of raising and lowering corp taxes, and taxes in general, we've even earned our own nickname on here!

Will keep an open mind though and look at economic reports on Labour's next manifesto ideas as well as others.

[Exiletyke]

I'm an old dog alright. And my wife's a complete bitch!

Nothing in this article looking at cause and effect of the tax reduction. What other factors at play? Not saying it isn't a factor though.

I agree with John above. Needs to be evidence based and looking around me, walking through streets, reading about counsels struggling to make ends meet, people struggling to make ends meet despite working long hours, people blaming other groups of people for their experience of poor services. Never known life so bleak for your average working folk. Doesn't appear to be much to show for decades of tax cuts and economy stimulation.

But we've linked each other to so many pro and con articles on benefits/ills of raising and lowering corp taxes, and taxes in general, we've even earned our own nickname on here!

Will keep an open mind though and look at economic reports on Labour's next manifesto ideas as well as others.

"counsels struggling to make ends meet"
I don't think so but
as Freudian slips go that's a gem, don't you think so Kerr