O/T Jeremy corbyn

[John2]

Note this article

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rger-collapses

I deliberately picked the Guardian because some posters on here think it's the bible of truth, but it's equally been reported elsewhere

Note the comment blaming the French government and note who is the biggest shareholder in Renault.

Within EU rules? - Questionable

Protectionism - Definitely

...and those folks that are anti-Trump and deals with the USA, Fiat-Crysler is part US owned.

Dear lord, you seem to not understand business at all. Shareholders are entitled to object to mergers, what sort of bizarre world do you live in where shareholder autonomy is against the rules!? Go on, indulge me, what rules are you questioning?

[Exiletyke]

Dear lord, you seem to not understand business at all. Shareholders are entitled to object to mergers, what sort of bizarre world do you live in where shareholder autonomy is against the rules!? Go on, indulge me, what rules are you questioning?

You see Grist Governments should keep out of such business matters & let the business world feck the world all on their own

[animallittle3]

The motor industry is going through a tough time. There is a huge investment needed to change to electric engines. Many alliances being formed to offset development cost.

The evidence is starting to build that manufacturers are leaving the UK. Investment in UK car industry is down 80%. Maybe not all be down to Brexit - but it is a factor (you cant ignore what the likes of Honda and Toyota are saying). Its a clear sign they are not looking to develop new models over here.

Given we have a highly skilled workforce why do you think they are ignoring Britain?

Its mounting up. Banking, Insurance, Steel, Aircraft, Cars, JCB, Dyson - all re positioning away from Britain. I think its worrying times.

They are looking away from here because they can pay skilled workers a pittance compared to the UK , it's that simple .

This is my point about globalisation killing the working class .

The costs of production will fall but will you see the price of a new Honda fall in the UK , no you won't , that reduction in cost will benefit the boardroom and nobody else .

Can't you see the game here that's played out ? , the distribution of wealth , more for those at the top whilst skilled workers are left to work in another Amazon DC .

[jocksgloves]

I haven't voted Labour since he became leader.

[WanChaiMiller]

They are looking away from here because they can pay skilled workers a pittance compared to the UK , it's that simple .

This is my point about globalisation killing the working class .

The costs of production will fall but will you see the price of a new Honda fall in the UK , no you won't , that reduction in cost will benefit the boardroom and nobody else .

Can't you see the game here that's played out ? , the distribution of wealth , more for those at the top whilst skilled workers are left to work in another Amazon DC .

I can see exactly what you are saying (and will still answer the question you posed on the other thread).

I just dont see how leaving the EU changes the underlaying situation you describe.

[animallittle3]

I can see exactly what you are saying (and will still answer the question you posed on the other thread).

I just dont see how leaving the EU changes the underlaying situation you describe.

Because freedom of movement is complicit in creating the Amazons of this world coming here and paying buttons an hour .

At least if Toyota and Honda take their production elsewhere which you can't stop then the Amazons coming in to replace these skilled jobs don't have the benefits of a huge cheap labour market .

So the price of that labour increases and is relatively comparable with the jobs we've lost .

At the end of the day I don't care who makes what or who comes here but what I do care about is the distribution of wealth and the working class getting a fair slice of it .

This isn't about me this is about my grandkids and their ability to work and prosper and have the opportunities previous generations were able to obtain .

I was able to purchase a house relatively comfortably on a living wage back in the day , have savings , go on holiday , go out at the weekend .

Unthinkable for my 18 year old step daughter and her partner , we have to fill in their financial gaps just to keep a roof over their heads and pay the bills , they don't go out , don't have a car and never had a holiday together and obviously have no savings .

This is the scenario for millions of young people today .

An extra three or four quid an hour gives them the shot my generation had .

[BigLadonOS]

Because freedom of movement is complicit in creating the Amazons of this world coming here and paying buttons an hour .

At least if Toyota and Honda take their production elsewhere which you can't stop then the Amazons coming in to replace these skilled jobs don't have the benefits of a huge cheap labour market .

So the price of that labour increases and is relatively comparable with the jobs we've lost .

At the end of the day I don't care who makes what or who comes here but what I do care about is the distribution of wealth and the working class getting a fair slice of it .

This isn't about me this is about my grandkids and their ability to work and prosper and have the opportunities previous generations were able to obtain .

I was able to purchase a house relatively comfortably on a living wage back in the day , have savings , go on holiday , go out at the weekend .

Unthinkable for my 18 year old step daughter and her partner , we have to fill in their financial gaps just to keep a roof over their heads and pay the bills , they don't go out , don't have a car and never had a holiday together and obviously have no savings .

This is the scenario for millions of young people today .

An extra three or four quid an hour gives them the shot my generation had .

Stop talking sense animal you know it will only fall on deaf ears.

[ragingpup]

Because freedom of movement is complicit in creating the Amazons of this world coming here and paying buttons an hour .

At least if Toyota and Honda take their production elsewhere which you can't stop then the Amazons coming in to replace these skilled jobs don't have the benefits of a huge cheap labour market .

So the price of that labour increases and is relatively comparable with the jobs we've lost .

At the end of the day I don't care who makes what or who comes here but what I do care about is the distribution of wealth and the working class getting a fair slice of it .

This isn't about me this is about my grandkids and their ability to work and prosper and have the opportunities previous generations were able to obtain .

I was able to purchase a house relatively comfortably on a living wage back in the day , have savings , go on holiday , go out at the weekend .

Unthinkable for my 18 year old step daughter and her partner , we have to fill in their financial gaps just to keep a roof over their heads and pay the bills , they don't go out , don't have a car and never had a holiday together and obviously have no savings .

This is the scenario for millions of young people today .

An extra three or four quid an hour gives them the shot my generation had .

I completely sympathise with your thinking behind this Animal. But I agree with much of Wan's reply.

There is a huge assumption that if we simply take away migrant workers coming over to work for low pay, that employers will respond by upping their pay to attract UK workers. I don't think that they would. I think that under our current 'skin it to the bone, maximise profits mentality leading to poor working terms and then low productivity, we would see employers respond by:

1. Import immigrant workers from rest of the world areas, as they do already despite us having complete control over their immigration.

2. Maintain low wages and work with the No Deal government (who you are absolutely right in saying that they have no interest in worker's welfares - the lowering of worker/environment protections is, for many of them, their whole reason for a No Deal exit) to force UK workers currently on benefits (including sick/disability) into working for these companies on the lower terms. this will obviously please our resident frothing Sun/Mail/Express readers on many levels!

I wish leaving the EU was likely to produce these benefits but without a change of political mindset, it's not possible.

If you think that the employers who pay poor wages have it in them to pay more to encourage UK workers to take the jobs, why not simply forget the EU red herring and focus on improving the minimum wage so that the UK work force have greater financial imperative to take these jobs. Better wages+conditions = higher productivity = profits = economy.

[ragingpup]

Regarding Corbyn, I respect that he is probably alone in trying to hold the line on honouring the referendum by negotiating a deal, but it is increasingly looking like a unicorn in itself. Most labour members I know are pulling their hair out that he won't fall behind remain as we increasingly have the frothing army clamour for an undemocratic No Deal. I still can't bring myself to back Remain, and still haven't and argue this position but with less heart every day.

The FullFact article I linked to a couple of days ago works from polls and predicts that under current voting patters, Corbyn would win an election called in current voting patterns but it would be a slim minority government and would require teaming up with LIb Dems and Greens. It argues that falling behind Remain, looking at switching patterns of voters lost to Labour to other parties, for very 1 voter lost to Leave, we are losing 3 to pro-remain parties. And so, if Labour supported Remain, it would win a majority government if nothing else changes with Tories and Brexit Party.

On a wider level, I would like Corbyn to stand down but only if we can find a powerful successor that can maintain the manifsto movements of 2017 and make the powerful economic case against Tory policies. He has too much easy baggage for the right to target and persuade floating voters that he is 'anti-British/anti-semitic' etc. And keeping Abbot so high up is baffling to me. I would like a change but a natural successor isn't easy to see.

[animallittle3]

Stop talking sense animal you know it will only fall on deaf ears.

I do get frustrated too with the younger working class because they fail to see the benefits of organising themselves to fight collectively just as our grandparents did , nobody was giving them owt either back then , that soon changed when they realised it was themselves who held the power .

See how Amazon cope with their workforce on strike for a week and unable to service their customers , HGV drivers turning round and not supplying the fulfillment centres with stock .

They'd be on their @ss in a week , take that globally too if you want , I can do globalisation too when it suits .

Feckers would be paying a living wage quick sticks or they die on the spot .

They'd shyte themselves for ever more after that and be more than aware that they have to play ball with the workforce or else .