Those of you who had Covid....

[WTF11]

If you are looking for views on vaccines the inventor of the MRNA vaccine technology has spoken widely and whilst still on balance recommending people have them acknowledges the risks from this vaccine - it spreads from the site of the injection more widely that traditional vaccine and that the spike protein is potentially toxic and could affect people. Symptoms which might be vaccine related are not really being widely collated as such as most believe that the vaccine is safe.

What seems clear is that if you had the virus badly, recovered and if you are young then your immunity levels should be just as good and probably better than if you just have the vaccine - your immune system will recognise the whole virus and not just one feature.

Time - the one thing we don’t have - will tell - but if I were 25 am not sure I would have had the vaccine just yet but waited a while to see how things pan out.

Disgraceful. I suspect you consider yourself a scientist and from.what have said previously you have some involvement in healthcare, yet you continue to peddle the anti-vax sh1te regarding the benefits of the vaccination as it applies to the younger cohort.

Ifs and buts count for f00k all, the one thing young people can (and should) do is get vaccinated, no matter what their Covid infection history. You can't determine when you may or may not be infected with Covid, you CAN determine when you can be protected from its effects (and protect otgers), via vaccination. Shame on you.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Not disgraceful and once again you misconstrue what is being said. I am not an anti backer but there is a lot of information out there in published studies which challenges and asks sensible questions.

Today the UK official research into effectiveness was published which shows the vaccines are not as effective for as long as was hoped. I have had the vaccine as I have stated before but I would not be so arrogant as to force that decision on others especially the young for whom the considerations are a little different.

You clearly are neither a scientist nor a medic as your logic and arguments seem to rely upon you always being right irrespective of the facts before you.

I find your tone and comments often immature and highly offensive and as I have gently said to you many times before play the ball not the person.

There was a phrase that comes to mind from when I was younger and lived in Leeds - Waddock.

[cherrypie7]

Not disgraceful and once again you misconstrue what is being said. I am not an anti backer but there is a lot of information out there in published studies which challenges and asks sensible questions.

Today the UK official research into effectiveness was published which shows the vaccines are not as effective for as long as was hoped. I have had the vaccine as I have stated before but I would not be so arrogant as to force that decision on others especially the young for whom the considerations are a little different.

I am curious and interested as to the reasons for your reticence at younger people getting vaccinated against Covid19. I cannot speak for policies in the UK, but here in the States, children are required to be vaccinated for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, measles etc before they can attend school. Those are live attenuated virus inoculations which are almost definitely more "dangerous" than the mRNA vaccines. As for "time", the major reason why covid19 vaccines were so fast in development was because there were so many volunteer subjects due to the rapid spread of the virus. These vaccines have now been tested for over a year now (i am counting since clinical trials started) without significant major adverse effects. Of course I would be cautious in administering it to the young [under 12] and especially infants, as there has not been sufficient data, but when the trials are done and completed and if successful, I would think it relatively safe. So I am interested in your thoughts as I cannot think of too many reasons not to get vaccinated except as you have mentioned if you have already got and recovered from covid recently.
Hope all on here are safe and well.

[Monaco_Totty]

I am curious and interested as to the reasons for your reticence at younger people getting vaccinated against Covid19. I cannot speak for policies in the UK, but here in the States, children are required to be vaccinated for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, measles etc before they can attend school. Those are live attenuated virus inoculations which are almost definitely more "dangerous" than the mRNA vaccines. As for "time", the major reason why covid19 vaccines were so fast in development was because there were so many volunteer subjects due to the rapid spread of the virus. These vaccines have now been tested for over a year now (i am counting since clinical trials started) without significant major adverse effects. Of course I would be cautious in administering it to the young [under 12] and especially infants, as there has not been sufficient data, but when the trials are done and completed and if successful, I would think it relatively safe. So I am interested in your thoughts as I cannot think of too many reasons not to get vaccinated except as you have mentioned if you have already got and recovered from covid recently.
Hope all on here are safe and well.

Hiya Cherry.

For women thinking of having children,pregnant or breast feeding the info put about is based on limited research stats.
I would worry about taking the current vaccines if pregnant,my Mum & Grandma also and that covers ages 34,56 & 86 advice wise from people who've been pregnant and myself who has not.

As said in another thread I'm part of a long term medical research programme and will continue in it for many years for a reason.

Like young footballers learning their trade - ability,motivation,lifestyle,understanding tactical knowledge,healthy eating & recovery are points that have to be learnt over time as a training young footballer.

So I do understand reluctance for 'time' in a world that wants everything 'now' particularly in addressing what's the right approach to matters.

In terms of stats playing PL football just 180 kids of the 1.5 million who play organised youth football at any one time will go onto a career in football.Thats just 0.012%.

I'd like to know how many pregnant women are currently in the global vaccination research programmes and the results so far before considered choice.

Just saying.

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets...cision-aid.pdf

[WTF11]

Hiya Cherry.

For women thinking of having children,pregnant or breast feeding the info put about is based on limited research stats.
I would worry about taking the current vaccines if pregnant,my Mum & Grandma also and that covers ages 34,56 & 86 advice wise from people who've been pregnant and myself who has not.

As said in another thread I'm part of a long term medical research programme and will continue in it for many years for a reason.

Like young footballers learning their trade - ability,motivation,lifestyle,understanding tactical knowledge,healthy eating & recovery are points that have to be learnt over time as a training young footballer.

So I do understand reluctance for 'time' in a world that wants everything 'now' particularly in addressing what's the right approach to matters.

In terms of stats playing PL football just 180 kids of the 1.5 million who play organised youth football at any one time will go onto a career in football.Thats just 0.012%.

I'd like to know how many pregnant women are currently in the global vaccination research programmes and the results so far before considered choice.

Just saying.

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets...cision-aid.pdf

As per my reply to HO in #27, there is real evidence=based information and advice
out there, and not hard to find really;

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2779182

https://www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/news/2152-...pregnant-women

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/guideline...and-pregnancy/

https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/first-co...n-the-uk/27684

Just a small sample from recognised, reputable organisations, no Facebook groups or Youtube videos!

[cherrypie7]

Hiya Cherry.

For women thinking of having children,pregnant or breast feeding the info put about is based on limited research stats.
I would worry about taking the current vaccines if pregnant,my Mum & Grandma also and that covers ages 34,56 & 86 advice wise from people who've been pregnant and myself who has not.

As said in another thread I'm part of a long term medical research programme and will continue in it for many years for a reason.

Like young footballers learning their trade - ability,motivation,lifestyle,understanding tactical knowledge,healthy eating & recovery are points that have to be learnt over time as a training young footballer.

So I do understand reluctance for 'time' in a world that wants everything 'now' particularly in addressing what's the right approach to matters.

In terms of stats playing PL football just 180 kids of the 1.5 million who play organised youth football at any one time will go onto a career in football.Thats just 0.012%.

I'd like to know how many pregnant women are currently in the global vaccination research programmes and the results so far before considered choice.

Just saying.

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets...cision-aid.pdf

Yes, I forgot about pregnant women when I was typing on the phone, in bed. All I know is that the CDC put out a statement a few weeks ago saying that the FDA approved vaccines here in the States are safe for pregnant women and for those who were trying to get pregnant in the near future. The data appears to be mostly on the mRNA vaccines, I think. Please don't quote me on that as I haven't had time to analyze all the numbers. Here is link if interested:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...-pregnant.html

Hope thsi helps.

[WTF11]

Not disgraceful and once again you misconstrue what is being said. I am not an anti backer but there is a lot of information out there in published studies which challenges and asks sensible questions.

Today the UK official research into effectiveness was published which shows the vaccines are not as effective for as long as was hoped. I have had the vaccine as I have stated before but I would not be so arrogant as to force that decision on others especially the young for whom the considerations are a little different.

You clearly are neither a scientist nor a medic as your logic and arguments seem to rely upon you always being right irrespective of the facts before you.

I find your tone and comments often immature and highly offensive and as I have gently said to you many times before play the ball not the person.

There was a phrase that comes to mind from when I was younger and lived in Leeds - Waddock.

"A lot of information out there"..........perhaps that would bear greater scrutiny if you were able to quote/refer to peer-reviewed, publicly available studies by reputable and globally recognised professionals/scientists, whose work can be subject to rigorous review?

Watch this, for an example of someone who isn't a scientist, but has grey matter between his ears, on the rapidly expanding Facebook "factsphere" that is allowing non-science to be presented as fact, supporting the likes of QAnon, racists, etc. It doesn't refer to Covid, as the speech was given before the pandemic, but it hits every nail on the head when it comes to calling out the trend towards acceptance of social media outlets as factual, simply because they exist on Facebook or Twitter, or whatever other sh1te people are being hoodwinked into believing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymaWq5yZIYM

(It's the full speech, 24 minutes, but well worth watching)

As to other parts of your post, you refer to the longevity of the antibodies generated via the vaccines. The programme was always going to be a subject for review (i.e. bit hard to establish a longevity of more than a year when the vaccines haven't been administered for that long), so the recent news that some antibodies last for less than a year is hardly a surprise and certainly ISN'T grounds for not getting vaccinated in the first place no matter what your age. Using antibody longevity to question the benefit of vaccination whilst ignoring all other benefits that the vaccines provide (e.g. protection against passing on the virus to others etc), is "selective" to say the least.

None of the above are my opinions, but publicly available fact, so no, I DO NOT rely on always being right (about Leeds, yes, but not about Covid), I depend on the EVIDENCE that can and should be scrutinised, rather than vague assertions made that "there is lots of information available" without a shred of such evidence being presented as to the source, its review, those responsible for such review etc. There are ethics committees the world over who have worked tirelessly to make sure quality materials are available (I know, I have helped develop and implement the workflow technologies that help them work), perhaps you should make reference to some if you deign to respond?

[Ozwhites]

Human beings are sociable animals, out genetics, physiology, psychology and behavioural characteristics over millenia show that to be fact. Some will be able to live with sealed borders, but only for a time (as has been shown), Queensland is one place, not sealed off and certainly not "secure", neither is anywhere else in Australia, nor (despite the holier than thou pronouncements of its premier), is New Zealand. Vaccination, vaccination, vaccination, to paraphrase Mr Hilton.

And I have also stated in agreeance with you that vaccinations are the only real solution. My point is that unlike other States here, Qld has followed the rules better...and they have been able to minimise the impact. "IF" all other States did the same then there would be very few cases...and hence show that lockdowns and isolation can work well. True, it wont happen because of idiots!...but that doesnt rule out that it couldnt in the "perfect" world. Just saying...

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Tried to post a long detailed response a couple of times without success will try with bullet points.

I am not an anti vaxxer I just like people to be able to make clear informed choices and the information of negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly.

lots of scientific information out there - try SAGE (papers often have footnote links to other research), ONS, Oxford Uni, Imperial, CDC, John Hopkins and Robin Koch as a starter.

Look at the MHRA vaccination process in normal times - this can’t be followed for obvious reasons - that presents increased risk.

Those under 25 who are fit and healthy are not as at risk as others generally therefore their need to be vaccinated is less (setting aside protecting others as the data on that is not clear)

Naturally acquired immunity is recognised in the UK and is possibly better than vaccine acquired immunity - if I have that I might want to wait good on the vaccine until more time has elapsed.

The vaccine has been great but the UK research published this week shows it is sadly time limited and becomes less effective within 6 months.

The mRNA vaccines are new tech and work differently - they are not as widely understood as trad vaccines - the risks are therefore not as well known.

Some in the USA in the medical profession have expressed concern that symptoms which may be associated with vaccines are being discounted when they need more consideration.

The vaccines are great but not the only panecea and other measures need to still be adopted (as you will see the US is now recommending for the fully vaccinated).

I want people to make informed choices and decisions and not to be be bounced into it. Putting something alien into your arm should be a conscious choice - especially if you hopefully have most of your life ahead of you.

Science should be rigourous and that is what is happening here but there has not been time for the fruits of that rigour to be released as research is ongoing and/or has not been peer reviewed. Some further research will be required.

Despite high levels of vaccination (78%) and naturally acquired immunity combined (look at the infection data for the last 3 months by age) the UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction - thus the vaccines are not the golden bullet at the moment no matter how helpful they are.


Said a lot more in other posts but hope that gives you an idea.

[spaldy]

if an much work had been done on Therapeutics had been done as on vaccines we'd likely be in a different spot.

The governor in FL is setting up clinics throughout the state to give people therapeutics such as Regeneron when symptoms present themselves. will be interesting to see how this plays out.

of course, that would eliminate the control function.