The French.

[Omegstrat6]

The French have even impounded your paragraphs, shocking behaviour 😊 .

So they have!!😄😄😄

[Omegstrat6]

I think we agree that we need immigrants to function as a society and we also agree that people often with young families, feeling that in order to improve their chances have to take a perilous journey with an uncertain outcome is a terrible situation that is being poorly managed, often the reasons for this type of migration are of our own making (Iraq/Syria etc), how we fix this is difficult, pouring billions in foreign aid to help these countries re build is proven to be tricky and open to corruption, clearly doing nothing isn’t an option but I’m stumped as to what we need to do?

Agree with you here and there is no easy solution but the starting point is always going to be finding out more factual information first. Also need to look at basic premises such as who we open up immigration to. Sure you would want to offer it to those who will benefit the country by their skill set but what about family ties or those seeking asylum from genuine risk. And what quotas do you allow for each? Not an easy task but one where better education on the subject might make for better solutions.

[Albionic68]

I suppose we could stop destabilising foreign regimes. They were quite happy to stay at home before their oppressors were removed from power.

[Omegstrat6]

I suppose we could stop destabilising foreign regimes. They were quite happy to stay at home before their oppressors were removed from power.

Don't think it was from lack of trying but you certainly have a point!😃

[baggieal]

I suppose we could stop destabilising foreign regimes. They were quite happy to stay at home before their oppressors were removed from power.

Difficult but understand the logic! The starvation and famine in Afganistan at the moment - presume the West should ignore this therefore and keep out? Super rich countries around Afganistan such as Qatar, Kuwait, UAE etc so presume they will rush to help their neighbours in need before the West even think about it? Will Mr Beckam also give his millions for the face of the World Cup in Qatar to those starving in Afganistan? Surely he does not need any more money and would love to help those starving kids?

[baggieal]

Whilst it may be true that, in comparison to the UK, France may not be seen to take its fair share of immigrants, immigration has been a growing problem across much of Europe for some years now. As for where these migrants come from, however, varies from country to country and this is mostly driven by which communities are already established where and old colonial links. For example, whereas most of Germany's immigrants come from Eastern Europe, the majority of the UK's come from India and Pakistan and France's from Algeria and Morocco. Around 14% of UK population was born outside of this country which compares to around 9.7% for France, 10% for Italy and a far higher 26% for Germany. Given its proximity to North Africa, Italy has to deal with around 52,000 migrants seeking asylum via boats compared with around 13,000 that the UK deals with a year. That said, the UK is economically stronger so more make the UK their final destination whereas the route via Sicily has always been a way northwards into Europe. Those 13,000 arrivals by boat, however, form less than half the number of annual UK immigration which is about 45,000. Regarding the UK the 2019 figures showed top countries of birth for immigrants being India, Poland (now reduced slightly due to Brexit), Pakistan and Romania with others being ROI, Germany, Bangladesh, S.Africa, Italy and China. The majority of boat crossings to the UK were made by those from places like Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Eritrea, Chad, Egypt and Sudan and make up only a small percentage of the total each year and so all the attention given to them smacks a little of deflection. In addition, many of these migrants are obviously fleeing untenable situations at home or why else would they risk the lives of themselves and their families in such hazardous crossings? I am not saying that immigration in the UK is not an issue but I honestly think that the more populist right wing press have been stirring this particular pot and whipping up the old "the country is in a mess so lets blame the immigrants" narrative that has happened forever whenever things go wrong and the leaders need a scape goat to deflect the population from the real underlying issues of their own failures. As others have said, do people really think that the majority of these boat people risk their lives so that they can sit in a crap rented flat on the dole in wet and rainy Britain? Or do they want to try and work and make for themselves and their family a better life than they could ever have had at home-even if this involves doing all the crap, low paid jobs that so many Brits would rather sit on the dole to avoid doing? I understand that it is more complex than this -but it is also far more complex than the narratives given by The Sun, Daily Mail etc I do not doubt for a second that immigration is an issue in this country but there needs to be a far more thoughtful approach to the topic than easy knee-jerk reactions

Good points but charity begins at home before illegals. Many families in this country can't afford food now yet some of these illegals are disgusted at sleeping in barracks etc. Take away the honey that attracts these illegals and they will stop coming. I feel for all in war torn countries but our inn is full and we should be like Australia.

In terms of legal immigration then yes excellent as we need more doctors, care home staff, skilled engineers etc. I blame our government for being too soft in the way they treat illegals and Spain would not be the same for example as the system gives you what you pay in -I have lived there for many years. Boris sadly is all talk and no action as surely all these dinghies should be towed back to France!

[Omegstrat6]

I totally agree that "charity should start at home" and there is much to do in regard to this as the gap between the have and have nots in this country just gets wider. Even Boris the Buffoon has realized that the pandemic has led to a change in the mood of the country around this and that he must at least pay some lip service to it hence all his rhetoric about "levelling up" and a "well paid and skilled workforce". Such a pity that the Labour Party is such a shambles and there is no viable opposition to a party that normally doesnt give a stuff about the have-nots and just looks after its own.

Anyhow, one of the points I was trying to make was that those 13,000 crossing the channel in boats is not as large a problem as the other 32,000 who make up the total number of immigrants (legal and illegal) we accept annually. I admit that I do not know the full details of this 32,000 and many may be skilled workers that the country needs but I bet a great many more are based on family ties and so maybe we could cut back on these numbers?

From a humanitarian point of view, I guess we should accept a percentage of asylum seekers (particularly if their situation is linked to the actions of this country eg Afghanistan) but that the wealthier European countries should work together to try and ensure that they each take their fair share.

I dont doubt that some immigrants play our benefits system-but so do many Brits! Surely, a key task should be to aim to get people off benefits and into work wherever possible. This may seem a simple case of carrot/stick at heart but is obviously more complex than that and involves tackling things like culture, education and housing as well as better wages and the levelling up of areas. I still maintain that the majority of those coming over on boats would rather work to improve their lot than stay on the dole but can understand why some question their choice to come here rather than France or Spain say, and conclude that the main reason is because the UK is seen as a "softer touch". When you factor in things like the criminal people smuggling gangs the reasons may be more complex than that.

I guess the only thing that an be said with certainty is that immigration is a genuine issue but quite how that is fairly resolved is another matter.

[mickd1961]

I totally agree that "charity should start at home" and there is much to do in regard to this as the gap between the have and have nots in this country just gets wider. Even Boris the Buffoon has realized that the pandemic has led to a change in the mood of the country around this and that he must at least pay some lip service to it hence all his rhetoric about "levelling up" and a "well paid and skilled workforce". Such a pity that the Labour Party is such a shambles and there is no viable opposition to a party that normally doesnt give a stuff about the have-nots and just looks after its own.



Anyhow, one of the points I was trying to make was that those 13,000 crossing the channel in boats is not as large a problem as the other 32,000 who make up the total number of immigrants (legal and illegal) we accept annually. I admit that I do not know the full details of this 32,000 and many may be skilled workers that the country needs but I bet a great many more are based on family ties and so maybe we could cut back on these numbers?

From a humanitarian point of view, I guess we should accept a percentage of asylum seekers (particularly if their situation is linked to the actions of this country eg Afghanistan) but that the wealthier European countries should work together to try and ensure that they each take their fair share.

I dont doubt that some immigrants play our benefits system-but so do many Brits! Surely, a key task should be to aim to get people off benefits and into work wherever possible. This may seem a simple case of carrot/stick at heart but is obviously more complex than that and involves tackling things like culture, education and housing as well as better wages and the levelling up of areas. I still maintain that the majority of those coming over on boats would rather work to improve their lot than stay on the dole but can understand why some question their choice to come here rather than France or Spain say, and conclude that the main reason is because the UK is seen as a "softer touch". When you factor in things like the criminal people smuggling gangs the reasons may be more complex than that.

I guess the only thing that an be said with certainty is that immigration is a genuine issue but quite how that is fairly resolved is another matter.

Congrats on the discovery of paragraphs as mentioned by 68.

A welcome addition to your usually very interesting posts which had previously induced bleeding from my eyes and ears before I got half way through your content.

Nice one!

[WBA1955]

Most of the ones you see are young men. A good job our young men didn't bugger off and leave their families in 1940.

[baggieal]

I totally agree that "charity should start at home" and there is much to do in regard to this as the gap between the have and have nots in this country just gets wider. Even Boris the Buffoon has realized that the pandemic has led to a change in the mood of the country around this and that he must at least pay some lip service to it hence all his rhetoric about "levelling up" and a "well paid and skilled workforce". Such a pity that the Labour Party is such a shambles and there is no viable opposition to a party that normally doesnt give a stuff about the have-nots and just looks after its own.

Anyhow, one of the points I was trying to make was that those 13,000 crossing the channel in boats is not as large a problem as the other 32,000 who make up the total number of immigrants (legal and illegal) we accept annually. I admit that I do not know the full details of this 32,000 and many may be skilled workers that the country needs but I bet a great many more are based on family ties and so maybe we could cut back on these numbers?

From a humanitarian point of view, I guess we should accept a percentage of asylum seekers (particularly if their situation is linked to the actions of this country eg Afghanistan) but that the wealthier European countries should work together to try and ensure that they each take their fair share.

I dont doubt that some immigrants play our benefits system-but so do many Brits! Surely, a key task should be to aim to get people off benefits and into work wherever possible. This may seem a simple case of carrot/stick at heart but is obviously more complex than that and involves tackling things like culture, education and housing as well as better wages and the levelling up of areas. I still maintain that the majority of those coming over on boats would rather work to improve their lot than stay on the dole but can understand why some question their choice to come here rather than France or Spain say, and conclude that the main reason is because the UK is seen as a "softer touch". When you factor in things like the criminal people smuggling gangs the reasons may be more complex than that.

I guess the only thing that an be said with certainty is that immigration is a genuine issue but quite how that is fairly resolved is another matter.

Fair points! In terms of Afghanistan there’s now a famine so who sorts that out? Perhaps the mega rich neighbours like Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE will bust a gut to help the Afghans rather than the West! I see Beckham the face of the Qatar World Cup is being paid millions! Perhaps Mr Beckham will donate all this Qatar money to those starving Afghans as he hardly needs the money! Will it happen? More chance Lai will provide 10 million for a striker!

A striker - I forgot what one of these chaps does as got so used to the donkey farm since our Dwight left!