O/T:- The NHS strike - for or against?

[Chicken Balti Pie]

My views on the NHS differ from most. Whilst it is admirable that it is held in such high regard, there are better universal and no payment at service systems out there which we should be looking at. When a big chunk of the NHS budget pays for administration, buildings and maintenance of buildings, if the NHS didn't own the buildings and just paid for the treatment, how much more could be done with the budget?

[Mark_Ross]

You can probably guess my thoughts, but what are yours?

The ultimate generalisation, but here goes:
It's been the same since time immemorial - us (hoi polloi) versus them (hoi oligoi).
The most wealthy/privileged/powerful really only have one weapon against the massed "ordinary" people = division.
[q.v. "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" in "Nine**** Eighty-four"]

Hence in principle I think we should try to support the "industrial" actions, even if it goes against our own immediate self interest.

[Old_pie]

Sorry - against.

For 15yrs there has been an independent review body. Both sides should have in the past stuck to their recommendations or otherwise what's the point. Government should offer to backpay in full previous recommendations not fulfilled. Unions should accept and wait for the impending new review.

Simply inflation is going to be the most damaging economic issue that this country faces and whilst lots of workers deserve recognition putting up wages to "match" inflation means we will be chasing inflation again this time next year. Royal Mail and Rail are already in my view pricing themselves out a a business. More than ever this year I've had "virtual" Christmas cards with the promise that monies saved will go to charities.

Anyway don't get drunk and end up in A&E and you'll be fine, providing you don't have a stroke, heart attack or hit by a car.

This country is flucked and I wish I could say "for".

Will the last person standing switch off the lights, if they can find the light switch.

[Magpies1959]

How on earth a nurse on £32,000 needs the use of a food bank I will never know. I been in hospital more times than I care to remember and can tell you not all nurses are great at their job. I found it laughable that any interview of striking NHS staff on Wednesday was hearing them say it was all about staffing levels and patient care and not about their wage demands, what a load of bull. Why do they not call out the countless overpaid unnecessary management jobs, and massively overpaid agency staff.
As someone who has lived most of his working life on the minimum wage in poor conditions, with no sick pay, only four**** days paid holiday and no buck shee pension thrown in, I find it hard to support the strike, given as UTM says most of them would have been on the side of longer harder lockdowns which has caused the mess we are in to a great extent.
There will be millions more in worse financial positions who cannot strike who will be worse off but just get on with life.
At the end of the day the NHS is not fit for purpose and needs massive reform.
The government should take some of the blame for the situation, granted, by not dripping in an inflationary rise, but as I say the 'workers', were quick to point out it is not all about pay. Surely this was said to gain sympathy from the general public.

[Elite_Pie]

How on earth a nurse on £32,000 needs the use of a food bank I will never know. I been in hospital more times than I care to remember and can tell you not all nurses are great at their job. I found it laughable that any interview of striking NHS staff on Wednesday was hearing them say it was all about staffing levels and patient care and not about their wage demands, what a load of bull.

You couldn't be more wrong. This strike is about staffing levels and being able to do their job properly just as much as money. Their goodwill has been taken for granted for over a decade because the Tories thought they wouldn't strike. Their shameful neglect of the NHS has pushed them over the edge, and all this was happening long before Covid.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Sorry - against.

For 15yrs there has been an independent review body. Both sides should have in the past stuck to their recommendations or otherwise what's the point. Government should offer to backpay in full previous recommendations not fulfilled. Unions should accept and wait for the impending new review.

Simply inflation is going to be the most damaging economic issue that this country faces and whilst lots of workers deserve recognition putting up wages to "match" inflation means we will be chasing inflation again this time next year. Royal Mail and Rail are already in my view pricing themselves out a a business. More than ever this year I've had "virtual" Christmas cards with the promise that monies saved will go to charities.

Anyway don't get drunk and end up in A&E and you'll be fine, providing you don't have a stroke, heart attack or hit by a car.

This country is flucked and I wish I could say "for".

Will the last person standing switch off the lights, if they can find the light switch.

Independent pay panel you say..! It seems it's not so independent after all.
The Tories have been destroying the NHS for over a decade so that it's now not fit for purpose.
Try getting an NHS dentist.
Try getting a sameday doctors appointment
Try going to A & E and having to wait less than 5 hours
Try getting an ambulance without being told its busy and they are upto 8 hours waiting times.
All examples off piss poor service due to miss management but the Ministers come on TV spouting they are spending more money than ever on the NHS without adding that a large portion of that money was spent on Dodgy PPE goods and contracts..!
The systems broke and needs major investment starting with wages

[ThaiPie]

I'm for the right to strike, but against the strikes.

Yes, inflation is 10%, but the majority of this is caused by external factors. So the workers who are prepared to strike are using industrial muscle to get an advantage over the majority in the workforce.

Well, "every one can go on strike" the socialists will say. But if everyone gets a 10% pay rise, then inflation goes up another 10%.

When the country gets richer, no-one complains, but there are times when the country gets poorer, and reform and productivity are the only ways to deserve higher wages.

[sinophile]

It always amazes me that people swallow Tory bull without questioning it. Why do you think giving pay rises to public sector workers will cause inflation? What will increase in price as a result?

To answer the question about whether supporting NHS strikers, I absolutely do. If you travel almost anywhere in the World you will find people admire the fact that healthcare is provided free of charge when people in the UK need it, regardless of ability to pay. The Tories have always hated the concept and have spent the last 12 years running it down so it can be privatised and owned by multinationals, and charged for by private insurance.

[slack_pie]

It always amazes me that people swallow Tory bull without questioning it. Why do you think giving pay rises to public sector workers will cause inflation? What will increase in price as a result?

Because the money has to come from somewhere. So that either means cuts elsewhere, higher taxes for you and me, or creating money out of thin air, which is what they did during COVID. They inflated the money supply to cover all the people forced out of work, which made everyone worse off. So, to answer your question as to what will increase in price as a result: everything.

If staff from the NHS, Royal Mail, or the railway networks get more money, everyone else will be less well off one way or another. The question is, why should these particular groups of people get preferential treatment during a time when everyone is suffering? Obviously the reason is because they have unions, which allow them to strong-arm the government by using the general public's suffering as leverage.

One more thing: don't we all agree to the terms and conditions of employment agreements when we sign them? Unless it is explicitly stated in a contract that pay will keep up with inflation, what legal right does an employee have to expect otherwise?

[Notts78]

Because the money has to come from somewhere. So that either means cuts elsewhere, higher taxes for you and me, or creating money out of thin air, which is what they did during COVID. They inflated the money supply to cover all the people forced out of work, which made everyone worse off. So, to answer your question as to what will increase in price as a result: everything.

If staff from the NHS, Royal Mail, or the railway networks get more money, everyone else will be less well off one way or another. The question is, why should these particular groups of people get preferential treatment during a time when everyone is suffering? Obviously the reason is because they have unions, which allow them to strong-arm the government by using the general public's suffering as leverage.

One more thing: don't we all agree to the terms and conditions of employment agreements when we sign them? Unless it is explicitly stated in a contract that pay will keep up with inflation, what legal right does an employee have to expect otherwise?

My point exactly. Nurses in the NHS know what they are signing up for. They know the pay. They know the hours and commitment needed. It’s not as though nurses are asked to work 60 hours a week and are not paid appropriately - they are. They are paid a basic. They are paid extra for nights, Saturday pay and Sunday pay. They are also paid overtime. They get paid for the hours they put in. And if over time etc is not available, they can do banked (agency) work for the NHS. I don’t buy in to this can’t afford to live BS… you often hear that nurses/doctors work all the hours possible, sometimes without a break. So what are they spending there money on?

My view is that the NHS is on its knees. If NHS staff are successful and get the demands they want, at what cost? They might be better off but the rest of us will be picking up the tab. The NHS is at a point that’s unsustainable and as such is ripe to be fully privatised or at least in part. Then what?

Nurses etc need to be careful what they wish for.