O/T This as got to stop.

[Redshank]

Wow! Theres a lot of ignorance and racist bigotry in this thread. There's also a lot of talk about terrorism and right to defend.

Its convenient to forget that the state of Israel was founded on terrorism. Google Stern Gang and Irgun, and see what they were up to in the 1940s. These far-right Zionist militias waged a terrorist war on Britain and her interests. British politicians were assassinated; British squaddies were killed - some were unarmed and murdered in cold blood. Others were captured and tortured. Two British sergeants were hanged, and their bodies were booby trapped. Hotels were bombed killing dozens of Brits. There was even a plot to kill Churchill.

It all sounds a bit IRA-ish doesn't it!

They were even terrorising and bombing British administration and military establishments before the second world war had even ended. No thought was given by Stern as to how the Allies were still dying in their thousands to end the holocaust and defeat the Nazis. Hundreds of Brits were killed, and moderate Jews were outraged by the Zionist terrorism.

The British response to this terrorist onslaught was on the whole very restrained. Compare that to the genocidal mania currently unfolding in Gaza.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the formation of the state of Israel, theres no doubt that the way it was created and has evolved has destabilised the whole area. The idea was to create a homeland for all Jews, but at the same time be inclusive. Unfortunately, it quickly became an apartheid state with restrictions on Arabs. From the off, hard right Zionists were hell-bent on obliterating Palestine and anybody who objected. They assassinated moderate Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 because he was negotiating peace with Yasser Arafat. More terrorism!

Have a look at the UN map of Palestine in 1947. Compare that to the current map and see how dramatically it has changed. Over the years, Israel has steadily and massively expanded its borders by way of forced displacement and re-settlement. This is illegal under international law.

Palestinians continue to be displaced, marginalised, persecuted, terrorised. Some people think that this is acceptable. Either way, its an undeniable fact. A fundamental of Zionism is the destruction of Palestine and, if necessary, all Palestinians whether Muslim, Christian, or even Jewish if they stand in their way. On that note, the old indigenous Jews of Palestine had long lived in relative peace with their Arab countrymen. Unfortunately, the steady influx of western Jews (and with-it Zionism) in the 20th century disrupted the whole area. The rest is history.

When the state of Israel was founded some of the Zionist terrorist militias were incorporated into the IDF despite strong opposition and condemnation from moderate Jewish leaders. Theres no doubt that this has set the tone for how the IDF has operated over the years culminating in the current Gaza conflict. A record number of children were killed in Gaza in 2023 in the run up to October 7th. A record number of journalists have been killed in the Gaza conflict. A record number of aid workers have been killed. Targeting journalists and aid workers is in direct contravention of the Geneva convention as is the rounding up and torturing of hospital doctors. Civilians are routinely shot indiscriminately...another contravention of the Geneva convention. You could call it all terrorism.

Terrorism of any sort is despicable, whether that be Hamas and the October 7th massacre, the Zionist terrorism of the 1940?s or the current genocide in Gaza. You don't have to agree with the reasons behind any of it, but understanding and recognising the fundamentals behind terrorism is often the way to deal with it and get rid of it.

One of my great uncles was in Palestine in the 1940s. He didn't talk about it. I can understand why when you look into the history of the region. The reasons behind the current Gaza conflict run much deeper than October 7th and all the events since.

Every nation in history that has committed a genocide has ultimately collapsed. Israel would do well to take note.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Wow! Theres a lot of ignorance and racist bigotry in this thread. There's also a lot of talk about terrorism and right to defend.

Its convenient to forget that the state of Israel was founded on terrorism. Google Stern Gang and Irgun, and see what they were up to in the 1940s. These far-right Zionist militias waged a terrorist war on Britain and her interests. British politicians were assassinated; British squaddies were killed - some were unarmed and murdered in cold blood. Others were captured and tortured. Two British sergeants were hanged, and their bodies were booby trapped. Hotels were bombed killing dozens of Brits. There was even a plot to kill Churchill.

It all sounds a bit IRA-ish doesn't it!

They were even terrorising and bombing British administration and military establishments before the second world war had even ended. No thought was given by Stern as to how the Allies were still dying in their thousands to end the holocaust and defeat the Nazis. Hundreds of Brits were killed, and moderate Jews were outraged by the Zionist terrorism.

The British response to this terrorist onslaught was on the whole very restrained. Compare that to the genocidal mania currently unfolding in Gaza.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the formation of the state of Israel, theres no doubt that the way it was created and has evolved has destabilised the whole area. The idea was to create a homeland for all Jews, but at the same time be inclusive. Unfortunately, it quickly became an apartheid state with restrictions on Arabs. From the off, hard right Zionists were hell-bent on obliterating Palestine and anybody who objected. They assassinated moderate Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 because he was negotiating peace with Yasser Arafat. More terrorism!

Have a look at the UN map of Palestine in 1947. Compare that to the current map and see how dramatically it has changed. Over the years, Israel has steadily and massively expanded its borders by way of forced displacement and re-settlement. This is illegal under international law.

Palestinians continue to be displaced, marginalised, persecuted, terrorised. Some people think that this is acceptable. Either way, its an undeniable fact. A fundamental of Zionism is the destruction of Palestine and, if necessary, all Palestinians whether Muslim, Christian, or even Jewish if they stand in their way. On that note, the old indigenous Jews of Palestine had long lived in relative peace with their Arab countrymen. Unfortunately, the steady influx of western Jews (and with-it Zionism) in the 20th century disrupted the whole area. The rest is history.

When the state of Israel was founded some of the Zionist terrorist militias were incorporated into the IDF despite strong opposition and condemnation from moderate Jewish leaders. Theres no doubt that this has set the tone for how the IDF has operated over the years culminating in the current Gaza conflict. A record number of children were killed in Gaza in 2023 in the run up to October 7th. A record number of journalists have been killed in the Gaza conflict. A record number of aid workers have been killed. Targeting journalists and aid workers is in direct contravention of the Geneva convention as is the rounding up and torturing of hospital doctors. Civilians are routinely shot indiscriminately...another contravention of the Geneva convention. You could call it all terrorism.

Terrorism of any sort is despicable, whether that be Hamas and the October 7th massacre, the Zionist terrorism of the 1940?s or the current genocide in Gaza. You don't have to agree with the reasons behind any of it, but understanding and recognising the fundamentals behind terrorism is often the way to deal with it and get rid of it.

One of my great uncles was in Palestine in the 1940s. He didn't talk about it. I can understand why when you look into the history of the region. The reasons behind the current Gaza conflict run much deeper than October 7th and all the events since.

Every nation in history that has committed a genocide has ultimately collapsed. Israel would do well to take note.

Or
After WW2 there were millions of Jews that were displaced and homeless. They needed a home country the prime candidate was the Palestine protectorate with the UK acting as baby sitter in that area

After many ( mainly failed) negotiations with the Arab states the UN decided that the land would become the new home and Israel was born

From that day Muslims in the surrounding Arab nations have wanted to invade and obliterate Israel, often under their country flag but lately in the latest conflict by sponsored Muslim terrorist groups.

This isn’t a land dispute, it’s all about Islam conquering the world

[mygiddypant]

Or
After WW2 there were millions of Jews that were displaced and homeless. They needed a home country the prime candidate was the Palestine protectorate with the UK acting as baby sitter in that area

After many ( mainly failed) negotiations with the Arab states the UN decided that the land would become the new home and Israel was born

From that day Muslims in the surrounding Arab nations have wanted to invade and obliterate Israel, often under their country flag but lately in the latest conflict by sponsored Muslim terrorist groups.

This isn?’t a land dispute, it?’s all about Islam conquering the world

Excellent post by Redshank.

Grist, you were doing quite well until the silly last sentence.

[millersrus]

Palestine, what is, where is Palestine.
The new name given by Romans to the general area formerly known as Judea after they had killed and expelled the resident population… Jews.
Genocide / ethnically cleansed!
Could be simply seen as just taking back what was once theirs?
Sadly as different religions are now involved it won’t end without a great many innocents suffering.

[animallittle3]

Wow! Theres a lot of ignorance and racist bigotry in this thread. There's also a lot of talk about terrorism and right to defend.

Its convenient to forget that the state of Israel was founded on terrorism. Google Stern Gang and Irgun, and see what they were up to in the 1940s. These far-right Zionist militias waged a terrorist war on Britain and her interests. British politicians were assassinated; British squaddies were killed - some were unarmed and murdered in cold blood. Others were captured and tortured. Two British sergeants were hanged, and their bodies were booby trapped. Hotels were bombed killing dozens of Brits. There was even a plot to kill Churchill.

It all sounds a bit IRA-ish doesn't it!

They were even terrorising and bombing British administration and military establishments before the second world war had even ended. No thought was given by Stern as to how the Allies were still dying in their thousands to end the holocaust and defeat the Nazis. Hundreds of Brits were killed, and moderate Jews were outraged by the Zionist terrorism.

The British response to this terrorist onslaught was on the whole very restrained. Compare that to the genocidal mania currently unfolding in Gaza.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the formation of the state of Israel, theres no doubt that the way it was created and has evolved has destabilised the whole area. The idea was to create a homeland for all Jews, but at the same time be inclusive. Unfortunately, it quickly became an apartheid state with restrictions on Arabs. From the off, hard right Zionists were hell-bent on obliterating Palestine and anybody who objected. They assassinated moderate Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 because he was negotiating peace with Yasser Arafat. More terrorism!

Have a look at the UN map of Palestine in 1947. Compare that to the current map and see how dramatically it has changed. Over the years, Israel has steadily and massively expanded its borders by way of forced displacement and re-settlement. This is illegal under international law.

Palestinians continue to be displaced, marginalised, persecuted, terrorised. Some people think that this is acceptable. Either way, its an undeniable fact. A fundamental of Zionism is the destruction of Palestine and, if necessary, all Palestinians whether Muslim, Christian, or even Jewish if they stand in their way. On that note, the old indigenous Jews of Palestine had long lived in relative peace with their Arab countrymen. Unfortunately, the steady influx of western Jews (and with-it Zionism) in the 20th century disrupted the whole area. The rest is history.

When the state of Israel was founded some of the Zionist terrorist militias were incorporated into the IDF despite strong opposition and condemnation from moderate Jewish leaders. Theres no doubt that this has set the tone for how the IDF has operated over the years culminating in the current Gaza conflict. A record number of children were killed in Gaza in 2023 in the run up to October 7th. A record number of journalists have been killed in the Gaza conflict. A record number of aid workers have been killed. Targeting journalists and aid workers is in direct contravention of the Geneva convention as is the rounding up and torturing of hospital doctors. Civilians are routinely shot indiscriminately...another contravention of the Geneva convention. You could call it all terrorism.

Terrorism of any sort is despicable, whether that be Hamas and the October 7th massacre, the Zionist terrorism of the 1940?s or the current genocide in Gaza. You don't have to agree with the reasons behind any of it, but understanding and recognising the fundamentals behind terrorism is often the way to deal with it and get rid of it.

One of my great uncles was in Palestine in the 1940s. He didn't talk about it. I can understand why when you look into the history of the region. The reasons behind the current Gaza conflict run much deeper than October 7th and all the events since.

Every nation in history that has committed a genocide has ultimately collapsed. Israel would do well to take note.

When you start throwing words around like genocide you need to understand that in order to make that allegation a fact you have to have 100% solid slam dunk proof otherwise known as fully conclusive , that is the International Court Of Justice ruling .

100% solid slam dunk proof looks like Nazi death camps during WW2 or thousands of bodies buried in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990's and the Khmer Rouge campaign in the 70's in Cambodia.

If the Israelis were committing genocide it would be over already and would take only a matter of days such is the vast amount of firepower they possess .

If they were committing genocide it's highly unlikely they'd want to lose the 3k soldiers they've lost either killed or wounded .

If they were committing genocide then how come they've dropped more bombs than they've actually killed people , they are either the worst shots in world military history or they are strategically bombing their targets , I don't have the Israelis down as particularly poor when it comes to warfare given their record since 1948 .

When genocide is committed it doesn't normally allow vaccines and aid to enter the area when genocide is getting committed and Gaza is receiving this aid .

If the Israelis are committing genocide then how come the Egyptians won't open the border and allow the Palestinians to escape and instead have that border heavily fortified ?

The plight of the Palestinians might also be greatly enhanced if Hamas didn't use them as human camouflage or create tunnels that run under schools , hospitals and many other places where there is a large concentration of people .

If Hamas cared about the Palestinians then why is it a poverty stricken area ? , it's received billions of dollars in aid for over 20 years .

The truth is Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians , all it cares about is the destruction of Israel and massacring it's people as it showed on October 7th 2023 .

This is the major flaw that people who support the Palestinian cause make , they can't separate Palestinians from Hamas and Israel are seeking to destroy Hamas .

Of course there is collateral damage , it's not a particular term I like to be honest but I can't thing of any other way to describe it .

Of course innocent people have died and will continue to do so , of course mistakes get made but given the terrain this conflict is getting fought upon it's highly unlikely things would be any better .

What kind of response did the pro Palestinian supporters expect from Israel given the butchering of 1200 innocent Israelis on October 7th 2023 ?

If you want to go down the history road , the kingdom of Israel was in existence 1500 years before the creation of Islam and the prophet Muhammad.

[Yak]

When you start throwing words around like genocide you need to understand that in order to make that allegation a fact you have to have 100% solid slam dunk proof otherwise known as fully conclusive , that is the International Court Of Justice ruling .

100% solid slam dunk proof looks like Nazi death camps during WW2 or thousands of bodies buried in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990's and the Khmer Rouge campaign in the 70's in Cambodia.

If the Israelis were committing genocide it would be over already and would take only a matter of days such is the vast amount of firepower they possess .

If they were committing genocide it's highly unlikely they'd want to lose the 3k soldiers they've lost either killed or wounded .

If they were committing genocide then how come they've dropped more bombs than they've actually killed people , they are either the worst shots in world military history or they are strategically bombing their targets , I don't have the Israelis down as particularly poor when it comes to warfare given their record since 1948 .

When genocide is committed it doesn't normally allow vaccines and aid to enter the area when genocide is getting committed and Gaza is receiving this aid .

If the Israelis are committing genocide then how come the Egyptians won't open the border and allow the Palestinians to escape and instead have that border heavily fortified ?

The plight of the Palestinians might also be greatly enhanced if Hamas didn't use them as human camouflage or create tunnels that run under schools , hospitals and many other places where there is a large concentration of people .

If Hamas cared about the Palestinians then why is it a poverty stricken area ? , it's received billions of dollars in aid for over 20 years .

The truth is Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians , all it cares about is the destruction of Israel and massacring it's people as it showed on October 7th 2023 .

This is the major flaw that people who support the Palestinian cause make , they can't separate Palestinians from Hamas and Israel are seeking to destroy Hamas .

Of course there is collateral damage , it's not a particular term I like to be honest but I can't thing of any other way to describe it .

Of course innocent people have died and will continue to do so , of course mistakes get made but given the terrain this conflict is getting fought upon it's highly unlikely things would be any better .

What kind of response did the pro Palestinian supporters expect from Israel given the butchering of 1200 innocent Israelis on October 7th 2023 ?

If you want to go down the history road , the kingdom of Israel was in existence 1500 years before the creation of Islam and the prophet Muhammad.

Perfectly explained. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Excellent post by Redshank.

Grist, you were doing quite well until the silly last sentence.

So hamas invading Israel and Iran throwing missiles at Israel was just a neighbourly act

lol

[mygiddypant]

So hamas invading Israel and Iran throwing missiles at Israel was just a neighbourly act

lol

"This isn't a land dispute, it's all about Islam conquering the world"

So please explain how Hamas and Iran (the first being supported financially and materially by the second) are connected to "conquering the world".

Is Israel "the world"?

Try to follow the logic of what you think/write/post. It helps if we understand.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

"This isn't a land dispute, it's all about Islam conquering the world"

So please explain how Hamas and Iran (the first being supported financially and materially by the second) are connected to "conquering the world".

Is Israel "the world"?

Try to follow the logic of what you think/write/post. It helps if we understand.

It?s easy really, a country can be Islamic or a heathen religion. Islam wants all the world to the Islamic, either by force as in this conflict or by stealth as we see in the UK

[Stovicmiller]

Wow! Theres a lot of ignorance and racist bigotry in this thread. There's also a lot of talk about terrorism and right to defend.

Its convenient to forget that the state of Israel was founded on terrorism. Google Stern Gang and Irgun, and see what they were up to in the 1940s. These far-right Zionist militias waged a terrorist war on Britain and her interests. British politicians were assassinated; British squaddies were killed - some were unarmed and murdered in cold blood. Others were captured and tortured. Two British sergeants were hanged, and their bodies were booby trapped. Hotels were bombed killing dozens of Brits. There was even a plot to kill Churchill.

It all sounds a bit IRA-ish doesn't it!

They were even terrorising and bombing British administration and military establishments before the second world war had even ended. No thought was given by Stern as to how the Allies were still dying in their thousands to end the holocaust and defeat the Nazis. Hundreds of Brits were killed, and moderate Jews were outraged by the Zionist terrorism.

The British response to this terrorist onslaught was on the whole very restrained. Compare that to the genocidal mania currently unfolding in Gaza.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the formation of the state of Israel, theres no doubt that the way it was created and has evolved has destabilised the whole area. The idea was to create a homeland for all Jews, but at the same time be inclusive. Unfortunately, it quickly became an apartheid state with restrictions on Arabs. From the off, hard right Zionists were hell-bent on obliterating Palestine and anybody who objected. They assassinated moderate Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 because he was negotiating peace with Yasser Arafat. More terrorism!

Have a look at the UN map of Palestine in 1947. Compare that to the current map and see how dramatically it has changed. Over the years, Israel has steadily and massively expanded its borders by way of forced displacement and re-settlement. This is illegal under international law.

Palestinians continue to be displaced, marginalised, persecuted, terrorised. Some people think that this is acceptable. Either way, its an undeniable fact. A fundamental of Zionism is the destruction of Palestine and, if necessary, all Palestinians whether Muslim, Christian, or even Jewish if they stand in their way. On that note, the old indigenous Jews of Palestine had long lived in relative peace with their Arab countrymen. Unfortunately, the steady influx of western Jews (and with-it Zionism) in the 20th century disrupted the whole area. The rest is history.

When the state of Israel was founded some of the Zionist terrorist militias were incorporated into the IDF despite strong opposition and condemnation from moderate Jewish leaders. Theres no doubt that this has set the tone for how the IDF has operated over the years culminating in the current Gaza conflict. A record number of children were killed in Gaza in 2023 in the run up to October 7th. A record number of journalists have been killed in the Gaza conflict. A record number of aid workers have been killed. Targeting journalists and aid workers is in direct contravention of the Geneva convention as is the rounding up and torturing of hospital doctors. Civilians are routinely shot indiscriminately...another contravention of the Geneva convention. You could call it all terrorism.

Terrorism of any sort is despicable, whether that be Hamas and the October 7th massacre, the Zionist terrorism of the 1940?s or the current genocide in Gaza. You don't have to agree with the reasons behind any of it, but understanding and recognising the fundamentals behind terrorism is often the way to deal with it and get rid of it.

One of my great uncles was in Palestine in the 1940s. He didn't talk about it. I can understand why when you look into the history of the region. The reasons behind the current Gaza conflict run much deeper than October 7th and all the events since.

Every nation in history that has committed a genocide has ultimately collapsed. Israel would do well to take note.

another one who throws the word racist about without naming posters, name them or are you a coward?