OT - Manchester again.

[Trickytreesreds]

Digital ID cards would have prevented this��
Just like the one in one out, and smashing the gangs is working. 6 sent to France now, be solved in no time at this rate. Well done Labour.
Your recognition of a terrorist state and justification of terrorists would have had nothing to do with it, neither your soft policing of Palestine marches, where anti semitic chants and banners take place.
Meanwhile, you pledge money to protect mosques and appease Muslims getting upset at all the complaints about their crimes?

But lives don’t matter to Starmer over a few votes.

[Trickytreesreds]

So the sick ****s, won’t show any respect
https://news.sky.com/story/pro-pales...ttack-13443915

Despite Trump pushing a deal nearly over the line and the hurt among Jews , they still want to carry on their hate march

Ive said before about this. I actually don’t believe any of this is really about Gaza. It’s about anti semitism and Jew bashing. There has been no marches over Syrians butchering each other, 100 000 kids dead. Yemen where over 60 000 civillians have been virtually executed. Or the Ukraine where an estimated 1 M have died. No Jews there to get inflamed about. Most of these protestors are left wingers and seeing Labours fingers are stained in anti semitism, it hardly seems surprising.
I watched question time last week, the Liberal was nearly in tears after the national flag rally, saying she felt scared and the police being attacked was awful��. She made no mention of there being 26 arrests and 18 of them were ANTIFA activists. So out of a crowd (laughing here as that figure is bollox) , 150 000 , 8 right wingers, scared her����

Meanwhile yesterday, Palestine March had dozens more arrested, for violence with less people. Nottinghill carnival had over 800 arrests ? ��

It seems the far right, pissed off with immigration are far more racist and intimidating, than actual racist activists chanting, fighting, waving placards.


Its one hell of a warped narrative here by the politicians and press.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Bloody hell Swale, I must have almost met you in the Tavern. I was supposed to be there that evening before going to the cinema next door to it, but the bus didn't turn up so we decided to have a drink locally instead. I was also supposed to have been meeting clients in WTC on 9/11 but we rescheduled the trip until a week later. To complete my personal hat trick I walked past the explosive laden white van in St Mary Axe 4 times in tho hour before the CU bombing.

But the IRA attacks, evil as they were, Wer almost "acceptable" in that they were grounded in a "war" between Ireland and England.

Manchester and the like are grounded in a "war" between Israel and Palestine fought out on foreign soil - ie Britain.. It's resulted in the death of 3 British citizens, 2 wholly innocent just living their life, one not so but most likely radicalised pawn (jury is out on that).

If Israel and Palestine want to kill each other to the last man standing, let them but the minute you bring that killing into another country and target innocent civilians, that's where a line is stepped over.

Make no mistake, this is NOT the actions of an odd crazy individual. It's a first step in an organised escalation. So why chose Britain as a target to export war? I'd suggest because all the pro Palestinian protests suggest that there is a level of support in this country for their cause. Many European countries are hardening their stances against Islam egxDenmark, Switzerland, France to cite a few.

But good old Britain can be relied on to tolerate the attack. They're a soft touch, look how many people are on our side. There won't be a purge on the real instigators of these murders.

The protestors maybe didn't themselves radicalise anyone but they have given license to those who do. The issues Are linked through a common ideology i- various degrees of hatred. I don't doubt similar levels of hatred underpin the Israeli stance and if the IDF was seen to have organised a strike on a mosque in Leicester I would be equally angry.

[ramAnag]

Bloody hell Swale, I must have almost met you in the Tavern. I was supposed to be there that evening before going to the cinema next door to it, but the bus didn't turn up so we decided to have a drink locally instead. I was also supposed to have been meeting clients in WTC on 9/11 but we rescheduled the trip until a week later. To complete my personal hat trick I walked past the explosive laden white van in St Mary Axe 4 times in tho hour before the CU bombing.

But the IRA attacks, evil as they were, Wer almost "acceptable" in that they were grounded in a "war" between Ireland and England.

Manchester and the like are grounded in a "war" between Israel and Palestine fought out on foreign soil - ie Britain.. It's resulted in the death of 3 British citizens, 2 wholly innocent just living their life, one not so but most likely radicalised pawn (jury is out on that).

If Israel and Palestine want to kill each other to the last man standing, let them but the minute you bring that killing into another country and target innocent civilians, that's where a line is stepped over.

Make no mistake, this is NOT the actions of an odd crazy individual. It's a first step in an organised escalation. So why chose Britain as a target to export war? I'd suggest because all the pro Palestinian protests suggest that there is a level of support in this country for their cause. Many European countries are hardening their stances against Islam egxDenmark, Switzerland, France to cite a few.

But good old Britain can be relied on to tolerate the attack. They're a soft touch, look how many people are on our side. There won't be a purge on the real instigators of these murders.

The protestors maybe didn't themselves radicalise anyone but they have given license to those who do. The issues Are linked through a common ideology i- various degrees of hatred. I don't doubt similar levels of hatred underpin the Israeli stance and if the IDF was seen to have organised a strike on a mosque in Leicester I would be equally angry.

Go steady, Rog. You’ll be a person of suspicion at this rate. Good job CCTV wasn’t up to much in those days!

More seriously, it’s interesting - seriously - that you should seek to differentiate between the IRA attacks and this week’s synagogue attack basically on the basis of the former being more home grown. I don’t think I can and I bet the families of the Birmingham drinkers and Warrington or Manchester shoppers can’t either.

You and I aren’t so far apart, but it isn’t really a case of ‘good old Britain’. Such atrocities do occur in plenty of other places - Germany, France, Denmark, USA etc - too you know.

[ramAnag]

So the sick ****s, won?t show any respect
https://news.sky.com/story/pro-pales...ttack-13443915

Despite Trump pushing a deal nearly over the line and the hurt among Jews , they still want to carry on their hate march

Ive said before about this. I actually don?t believe any of this is really about Gaza. It?s about anti semitism and Jew bashing. There has been no marches over Syrians butchering each other, 100 000 kids dead. Yemen where over 60 000 civillians have been virtually executed. Or the Ukraine where an estimated 1 M have died. No Jews there to get inflamed about. Most of these protestors are left wingers and seeing Labours fingers are stained in anti semitism, it hardly seems surprising.
I watched question time last week, the Liberal was nearly in tears after the national flag rally, saying she felt scared and the police being attacked was awful��. She made no mention of there being 26 arrests and 18 of them were ANTIFA activists. So out of a crowd (laughing here as that figure is bollox) , 150 000 , 8 right wingers, scared her����

Meanwhile yesterday, Palestine March had dozens more arrested, for violence with less people. Nottinghill carnival had over 800 arrests ? ��

It seems the far right, pissed off with immigration are far more racist and intimidating, than actual racist activists chanting, fighting, waving placards.


Its one hell of a warped narrative here by the politicians and press.

Hmmm, talking of warped narratives, haven’t you been telling us since Adam was a lad that there’s one (lenient) rule for ‘ethnics and lefties’ and a different (stricter) rule for those on the Right?
Now you seem to be saying the opposite - only 8/150k arrests from the flag purloiners while ‘dozens more’ from the smaller pro Palestine rally and 800 at Notting hill.
Can’t have it both ways, Two Tier Tricky.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Go steady, Rog. You’ll be a person of suspicion at this rate. Good job CCTV wasn’t up to much in those days!

More seriously, it’s interesting - seriously - that you should seek to differentiate between the IRA attacks and this week’s synagogue attack basically on the basis of the former being more home grown. I don’t think I can and I bet the families of the Birmingham drinkers and Warrington or Manchester shoppers can’t either.

You and I aren’t so far apart, but it isn’t really a case of ‘good old Britain’. Such atrocities do occur in plenty of other places - Germany, France, Denmark, USA etc - too you know.

Correct rA and the European examples are equally repellent acts of imported warfare too. It's not a case of good old Britain, it's one of waging your own war in someone else's country.. The US example of 9/11 doesn't quite fit that mould as the Americans were actively involved militarily in the Middle East at the time

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hmmm, talking of warped narratives, haven’t you been telling us since Adam was a lad that there’s one (lenient) rule for ‘ethnics and lefties’ and a different (stricter) rule for those on the Right?
Now you seem to be saying the opposite - only 8/150k arrests from the flag purloiners while ‘dozens more’ from the smaller pro Palestine rally and 800 at Notting hill.
Can’t have it both ways, Two Tier Tricky.

or maybe, just maybe the right wing protesters are naturally more law abiding!! Maybe the 8 were arrested for saying naughty words but the dozens were arrested for ABH. perhaps the Notting Hill arrests were mostly drug usage based. numbers mean nothing, its quality of infractrion rather than quantity that matter

[ramAnag]

or maybe, just maybe the right wing protesters are naturally more law abiding!!

Well they sure as hell didn’t seem to be when they were trying to burn down hotels and putting coppers in hospital, did they? You might also like to do a brief background check on some of their ‘leaders’. Wouldn’t describe a certain ‘Tommy Numerousnames’ as remotely law abiding for example and I believe Lee Twarmley - the Manchester flag erector - has been done for people trafficking. To quote some one or other, ‘you couldn’t make it up’!

[Geoff Parkstone]

jesus sarcasm doesnt work on line does it

[swaledale]

Bloody hell Swale, I must have almost met you in the Tavern. I was supposed to be there that evening before going to the cinema next door to it, but the bus didn't turn up so we decided to have a drink locally instead. I was also supposed to have been meeting clients in WTC on 9/11 but we rescheduled the trip until a week later. To complete my personal hat trick I walked past the explosive laden white van in St Mary Axe 4 times in tho hour before the CU bombing.

But the IRA attacks, evil as they were, Wer almost "acceptable" in that they were grounded in a "war" between Ireland and England.

Manchester and the like are grounded in a "war" between Israel and Palestine fought out on foreign soil - ie Britain.. It's resulted in the death of 3 British citizens, 2 wholly innocent just living their life, one not so but most likely radicalised pawn (jury is out on that).

If Israel and Palestine want to kill each other to the last man standing, let them but the minute you bring that killing into another country and target innocent civilians, that's where a line is stepped over.

Make no mistake, this is NOT the actions of an odd crazy individual. It's a first step in an organised escalation. So why chose Britain as a target to export war? I'd suggest because all the pro Palestinian protests suggest that there is a level of support in this country for their cause. Many European countries are hardening their stances against Islam egxDenmark, Switzerland, France to cite a few.

But good old Britain can be relied on to tolerate the attack. They're a soft touch, look how many people are on our side. There won't be a purge on the real instigators of these murders.

The protestors maybe didn't themselves radicalise anyone but they have given license to those who do. The issues Are linked through a common ideology i- various degrees of hatred. I don't doubt similar levels of hatred underpin the Israeli stance and if the IDF was seen to have organised a strike on a mosque in Leicester I would be equally angry.

Its a very small world! Brum was a regular hang out in my ****age years, saw many a cracking gig at the Odeon mostly at £5 a time!! I lived between Stratford on Avon and Brum at the time, we'd do a round of pubs before hitting a nightclub, because it was to expensive to drink in a club! Thankfully I've lost my taste for M&B beer, though to my knowledge it doesn't exist these days!

I do agree, that there has been insufficient attention (as far as we know) paid to certain Imams and others who in Mosques or online have been radicalising people. But the incident in Manchester and the 7/7 were not to my knowledge the result of organised "war", anymore than the Manchester Arena bombing was, it was individuals who may well have been radicalised, who undertook these attacks. It isn't as far as I can see from available evidence, the first step in an organised war.

Again I'd say there is little evidence of a ink between these acts and the protesters who express support for Palestine against the Israeli actions. Nor can I see how they give licence to those that do, these attacks have been taking place for decades, perhaps the person to blame is Bliar with his eagerness to join in with the USA's ridiculous so called "War on terror"? Certainly therein lies more of an a reason, though I stress not one I consider to be a valid one for these atrocities.

It's certainly not helped by the rhetoric that is spewed out by right wing agitators and media grifters against Muslims, some of whom ironically have relocated to a Muslim country!!

I'd take issue that there have not been similar incidents in Europe as RA has pointed out. Indeed France has its own issues due to its involvement in Algeria and Syria but the UK attracts attention because of its historical links to the setting up and support of Israel, plus it eagerness to get involved with the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Whilst I had sympathy with the IRA cause, I had no sympathy with their bombing and killing civilians. Indeed, it is only when they switched their attention to attacking politicians that the then government started seriously taking action through "back channel talks with the IRA" to reach a resolution. This despite various governments stance of "we don't talk to terrorists"!

My view is that there wasn't the inherent "race" or ethnicity angle at the time which perhaps made them less of an impact and certainly when I was going round Brum or even around London, I never gave it much thought, but maybe that was the nature of being young at the time? One lived in those times and it was "normal"?