Taking the knee

[spaldy]

Yes, warts and all I'm very proud to be an American citizen. It's the greatest experiment in governance in the history of Mankind. THe brilliance of our founders was unapparelled. They created a form of government that took 250 years to destroy. The only thing they did not account for was the fact that politicians would want to make government a lifetime "vocation". They were more concerned with getting enough people to do their civic duty. They never could predict the amount of wealth and power a federal politician would take for themselves.
And yes, you are correct that we needed other countries help to survive the early years. An undeveloped land with no manufacturing or developed resources needs that to survive until they mature.

The elimination of the 17th amendment, the lack of term limits, along with our vast wealth has created the internal rot that is destroying us from within. As a wiser man than me said "all democracies are temporary". We are not a democracy so the representative replubic form of governance we developed has forstalled the collapse but not eliminated it. The money is running out and the printing presses are running full blast.

You must be very happy with the way the world is heading. As long as it fits your world view it's all good. Total government control of the media, journalists, currency, public safety and most importantly.... education. People arrested for posting comments on social media or unwilling to conform to mandated government "health protocols". You are very fond of referencing Nazi's in many posts. You do realize that the Nazi's of the past could never even dream of the control that world governments excercise over all of us in "free countries".

I promised Mrs O I'd lay off the political posts on a football forum so I'll conclude my comments on this by saying we just agree to disagree on this matter.

Sorry Mrs. O.... I fell off the wagon but I'll get back on.

[WTF11]

Can you name anyone removed or murdered by Trump for disliking him? Err, what are you talking about?

Did the nazis round up people and.....deport them?

Err, yes they did, by the trainload, in their millions (you dispute this?), across all of the countries they occupied during WWII. Where they were deported to turned out to be a series of industrial-scale killing factories, set up with the aim of furthering the aims of their creators, the German Nazi Party (see below for definition of Nazism)

Secure borders is NOT facist or nazi style.

- Has anyone (me included) suggested that it is?

Criminals jailed is NOT facist or nazi style.

- Ditto for the secure borders question

Deporting illegals is NOT facist or nazi style.

- And again, but lets understand who is deemed “illegal” and what due process has been used to establish the states right to deport them

Right to bear arms is NOT facist or nazi style.

– Irrelevant, given the situation in the UK (please see below for comment out “disarming”

Free speech is NOT facist or nazi style.

– Quite so, very much agree but who determines what is free speech? Your constitution attempts to do so, but as with all government legislature and the underpinnings it depends on, interpretation is everything, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” in all things.

Women's right to privacy is NOT facist or nazi style.

– Again, very much agree and I suspect this comment relates to the debate on trans rights, something all countries are struggling with, including the USA and the UK

Fair competition is NOT facist or nazi style.

– Define “fair competition”? As an example take specialist UK steel, imported by the US for use in your nuclear submarine construction for the US Navy, and up to February, tariff free. Since March this year that changed, and UK steel is now subject to a 25% tariff. It might be worth bearing in mind that the steel I’m talking about CANNOT be made in the US, you don’t have the technology, so any suggestion that it was “dumped” on the US is clearly wrong. Trump hasn’t got the faintest idea as to how complex world economics work, he is incapable of understanding that his “deals” damage all parties (the steel used by those constructing US Navy submarines now HAVE to pay 25% more for their steel, which goes to the US Treasury, guess where it goes from there!

But....and here's the left for you....

Forced "vaccines" is facist/nazi style.

– I presume you are pointing at the UK there? Not ONE SINGLE person in the UK has EVER been forced to accept vaccine administration. That applies to ALL vaccines, now and historically. You will not find any evidence of such practice because it doesn’t exist. Try, by all means. What CAN be found is the disasterous effect that vaccine nay-sayers such as Andrew Wakefield and others more recently such as Kennedy, on the VOLUNTARY take-up of vaccines here in the UK (and elsewhere), leading to the return as a major public health issue of Measles, Whooping cough, Polio, Diptheria, Mumps, and Chickenpox (amongst others) all of which were almost unheard of until the vaccination misinformation machine went into overdrive during Covid.

Disarming the population is facist/nazi style.

– Again, aiming (forgive the pun) at the UK? You can’t disarm those who are not armed, and in the UK the civilian population are NOT (with some very limited exceptions) armed, nor have they been armed in past 200 years or so, with one exception during WWII when the “dads army” became the formalised Home Guard. The Guard was disbanded shortly after WWII ended and all arms handed in for disposal. Fortunately the rule of law here is enforced by a largely unarmed police force. Specially trained officers are issued with a variety of lethal weapons, and equally fortunately, the absence of widespread armed civilians makes it much easier for those officers to tell the good guys from the not so good ones. There are no groups demanding that the policy should change, largely because we can see what happens when the “right to bear arms” is acted upon. We value the lives of our children too much to allow anything of the sort to happen.

Political prosecutions is facist/nazi style.

– Agreed, and that’s exactly what we are seeing across the US where the DoJ is being used to prosecute those who Trump doesn’t like now, or who may have transgressed against him in the past

Intel agencies politicised is facist/nazi style.

– Amen, and please examine all those who are heading major organs of government including the FBI

Forced acceptance is facist/nazi style.

- Forced acceptance of what? If you want an example of (potential) forced acceptance look at the stance Trump is taking on the war in Ukraine, where he seems to be favouring a halt to hostilities based on current front lines, which if translated into a long term “peace” deal, would mean that nearly 20% of Ukraine would be FORCED to become Russia (not including the Crimean peninsula illegally annexed by Russia in 2014)

Political opponents on lists is facist/nazi style.

– And Trump has plenty of lists

Restricted speech is facist/nazi style.

– Restricted by? Again u are perhaps referring to the UK? As I mentioned in another post on the subject, I am fairly certain that I can say or do anything I like unless it’s inciting violence (Which I think is a reasonable limit, you don’t?). I might end up in a fight if someone really takes offence, but that’s a risk you take if you espouse controversial, sometimes upsetting opinions, something we all have to bear in mind.

If Trump was a nazi or facist how come de Niro etc are not rotting in prison?

– I have no idea what you are referring to so I can’t answer.

I really don’t know what you are talking about when you utter such garbage as “the liars in my group-think”. I’ve said on many occasions in the past that I form my opinions and views for myself, I use CREDIBLE sources of information, not click-bait and all the sh1te that infests the web, unlike some. I don’t need “influencers” or those with vested interests in a particular outcome to do that.

Couple of definitions/descriptions, since you suggested I don't know them;

Nazism

Nazism (or more correctly “neo-nazism”), is a form of fascism with an extreme ultranationalism, based on social Darwinism and pseudo-scientific racial theories, which proposed that certain races were superior
Nazism holds that society should aspire to a "master race" and aims to create a racially homogeneous society by excluding and persecuting those deemed "inferior" or "community aliens”.

The ideology supports a dictatorial leader and a totalitarian state, dismantling liberal democracy and parliamentary systems. Trump is rapidly emulating the achievements of Adolf Hitler ruling as a dictator with absolute power.

Fascism

Fascism fosters the notion of A single, centralized autocracy led by a dictator who holds supreme power, often seizing control forcefully or by dismantling democratic institutions. Ultranationalism is a key characteristic with exclusionary form of nationalism as a core principle, placing the importance of the nation above all else. This can involve the concept of a "master race" and the demonization of minorities. Fascism embraces paramilitarism and the idea that the nation is strengthened through military power and national unity. Opposition, dissent, and criticism are suppressed through violence and oppression to maintain control. The state exerts strong control over social and economic life, and individual interests are subordinated to the state's will. Fascism is fundamentally opposed to democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and individual rights.

Those two sound familiar?

[WTF11]

Just a short.follow-up on the query regarding the right to bear arms;

https://www.google.com/search?q=comp...HIyBhbIP3r3EMA

I'd prefer our policing system to that of the USA all f00king day long, glad some of you are so proud of your dealing with death, althiugh you get so much practice at it I guess that's understandable.

[Oranje White]

@WTF you know very well Trump is deporting illegals ( ie those in the country ILLEGALLY) back to where they came from. Not to Concentration Camps or gas chambers. There is no comparrison.You know very well what constitutes an "illegsl alien". They were given the opportunity to deport themselves and if they did, would be able to apply to come in legally. Expecting 12 million+ illegals to get free due process and health and accommodation is crazy. They are criminals because they are there...ILLEGALLY. Do you know the difference between "illegal" and "legal"?? Appears not.
The "vaccine" I refer to is the experimental poison injections mandated o to the population....no vax no work = no vax no money so no food or mortgage payments. Breaking the Nuremberg laws. New evidence comes out daily on how unsafe and dangerous these injections were. The definition of "vaccine" had to be altered to accommodate these jabs. The FBI and CIA went after Trump for all they could even making up the Russian hoax as has been revealed. They tried to jail him, prosecute him, ban him from the ballot, invent crimes, lie and even shoot him. They paid tbe media to generate hatred which worked well for the easily brainwashed dim wits who hated Trump for the fake reasons of "facist", "nazi", "threat to democracy" etc. All fake. They paid Social Media to censor pro Trump posts and any posts questioning "the science" behind Biden's vax scam. Now, those agencies will pay for that corruption. Comey and many others are guilty of treason and lying under oath. Remember they all screamed "nobody is above the law"?
You couldn't see it going on in the US, and you're blind to it under your own nose.

[WTF11]

@WTF you know very well Trump is deporting illegals ( ie those in the country ILLEGALLY) back to where they came from. Not to Concentration Camps or gas chambers. There is no comparrison.You know very well what constitutes an "illegsl alien". They were given the opportunity to deport themselves and if they did, would be able to apply to come in legally. Expecting 12 million+ illegals to get free due process and health and accommodation is crazy. They are criminals because they are there...ILLEGALLY. Do you know the difference between "illegal" and "legal"?? Appears not.
The "vaccine" I refer to is the experimental poison injections mandated o to the population....no vax no work = no vax no money so no food or mortgage payments. Breaking the Nuremberg laws. New evidence comes out daily on how unsafe and dangerous these injections were. The definition of "vaccine" had to be altered to accommodate these jabs. The FBI and CIA went after Trump for all they could even making up the Russian hoax as has been revealed. They tried to jail him, prosecute him, ban him from the ballot, invent crimes, lie and even shoot him. They paid tbe media to generate hatred which worked well for the easily brainwashed dim wits who hated Trump for the fake reasons of "facist", "nazi", "threat to democracy" etc. All fake. They paid Social Media to censor pro Trump posts and any posts questioning "the science" behind Biden's vax scam. Now, those agencies will pay for that corruption. Comey and many others are guilty of treason and lying under oath. Remember they all screamed "nobody is above the law"?
You couldn't see it going on in the US, and you're blind to it under your own nose.

I pity you. You really do need help, honestly, sincerely.

[MrsORichSenior_]

Yes, warts and all I'm very proud to be an American citizen. It's the greatest experiment in governance in the history of Mankind. THe brilliance of our founders was unapparelled. They created a form of government that took 250 years to destroy. The only thing they did not account for was the fact that politicians would want to make government a lifetime "vocation". They were more concerned with getting enough people to do their civic duty. They never could predict the amount of wealth and power a federal politician would take for themselves.
And yes, you are correct that we needed other countries help to survive the early years. An undeveloped land with no manufacturing or developed resources needs that to survive until they mature.

The elimination of the 17th amendment, the lack of term limits, along with our vast wealth has created the internal rot that is destroying us from within. As a wiser man than me said "all democracies are temporary". We are not a democracy so the representative replubic form of governance we developed has forstalled the collapse but not eliminated it. The money is running out and the printing presses are running full blast.

You must be very happy with the way the world is heading. As long as it fits your world view it's all good. Total government control of the media, journalists, currency, public safety and most importantly.... education. People arrested for posting comments on social media or unwilling to conform to mandated government "health protocols". You are very fond of referencing Nazi's in many posts. You do realize that the Nazi's of the past could never even dream of the control that world governments excercise over all of us in "free countries".

I promised Mrs O I'd lay off the political posts on a football forum so I'll conclude my comments on this by saying we just agree to disagree on this matter.

Sorry Mrs. O.... I fell off the wagon but I'll get back on.

i always have ears for opinions and advice but key for my working environment and private life has always being able to compromise.

compromise allows disagreeing parties to hold onto their reasonable views....... thus constituting a more desirable solution to disagreement.

some may suggest that to eliminate pre-existing bias or opinions you may have ... then one should also eliminate any opinions you have about any policy or law........ then eliminate any opinions or bias you have on class, wealth, or your own experiences to.

thus suggesting once you have reached this point as a blank state you can then look at each issue individually and take a step back.......then research the actual facts....and then come to a rational decisions based on the facts.........
to often people tend to say negative things about the others political side without even understanding the complexity of some complex issues...... yes, one can spend all day letting their chosen mainstream media doctrine dictate to you what your opinions should be.... or rather you can become independently more informed and make up your own mind...... and then call the bull$hit out when you hear it, in which you will hear a lot from both sides and indeed in the whole political spectrum daily.

but all above will only tell you the facts relevant to supporting their arguments and then leave out everything else that is actually needed to make an informed decision........ thats my ears, eyes and brain take ...... leading to suggest if we could focus on policy ........it would be easier to be objective...... in my experience.

when involved in negotiation and compromise with Americans and Russians, for example, in my past......... through my eyes.........then with Americans..... compromise is seen as a positive outcome where both parties reach a mutually beneficial agreement....... whereas the Russian view of compromise can be seen as a sign of weakness...... so pushing through ones own position is often prioritised with negotiations sometimes viewed as a zero-sum game negotiation.

so for me, back on thread........ i could suggest political discourse in USA unfortunately has devolved into debate over who is worthy and who is not.....who are real Americans and who are traitors and who should be included and who deserves to be marginalised.

that then would suggest could we agree for example, that all American citizens are worthy of adequate health care.....then the debate could revolve more objectively around the best policies to pursue to achieve that outcome.

as long as politics continues to revolve around us v them then America loses in many eyes....... of course objective eyes may well disagree...... but as a English born humble translator living in France dealing with Europeans, Americans and Baltic states also being married to person of East European family blood...... youth must also be celebrated now because its been equated with being malleable and.......stupid.

to conclude......people still enjoy taking advantage of those who do not know better......even in small ways as its predatory and why many global companies prefer to hire younger workers as they have less experience ............ so are less likely to tell coworkers and managers to kick rocks when harassed, disrespected or taken advantage of.

there lies an answer in the above para and to many current woes discussed...... were maybe the voice of young people now matters....... precisely because they are young and lots of policies and services affect them already and if they dont they soon will.......... so early education is certainly key to all matters of regional differences, of the social mobility which varies geographically, with some regions now showing greater potential than others.

Spaldy, you mentioned education........ for me good early education fosters critical thinking, creativity and problem solving abilities..... also building confidence and promoting social and economic development........crucial components for a countries progress leading to economic growth, greater civic engagement and a more peaceful society.

MOT

[WTF11]

i always have ears for opinions and advice but key for my working environment and private life has always being able to compromise.

compromise allows disagreeing parties to hold onto their reasonable views....... thus constituting a more desirable solution to disagreement.

some may suggest that to eliminate pre-existing bias or opinions you may have ... then one should also eliminate any opinions you have about any policy or law........ then eliminate any opinions or bias you have on class, wealth, or your own experiences to.

thus suggesting once you have reached this point as a blank state you can then look at each issue individually and take a step back.......then research the actual facts....and then come to a rational decisions based on the facts.........
to often people tend to say negative things about the others political side without even understanding the complexity of some complex issues...... yes, one can spend all day letting their chosen mainstream media doctrine dictate to you what your opinions should be.... or rather you can become independently more informed and make up your own mind...... and then call the bull$hit out when you hear it, in which you will hear a lot from both sides and indeed in the whole political spectrum daily.

but all above will only tell you the facts relevant to supporting their arguments and then leave out everything else that is actually needed to make an informed decision........ thats my ears, eyes and brain take ...... leading to suggest if we could focus on policy ........it would be easier to be objective...... in my experience.

when involved in negotiation and compromise with Americans and Russians, for example, in my past......... through my eyes.........then with Americans..... compromise is seen as a positive outcome where both parties reach a mutually beneficial agreement....... whereas the Russian view of compromise can be seen as a sign of weakness...... so pushing through ones own position is often prioritised with negotiations sometimes viewed as a zero-sum game negotiation.

so for me, back on thread........ i could suggest political discourse in USA unfortunately has devolved into debate over who is worthy and who is not.....who are real Americans and who are traitors and who should be included and who deserves to be marginalised.

that then would suggest could we agree for example, that all American citizens are worthy of adequate health care.....then the debate could revolve more objectively around the best policies to pursue to achieve that outcome.

as long as politics continues to revolve around us v them then America loses in many eyes....... of course objective eyes may well disagree...... but as a English born humble translator living in France dealing with Europeans, Americans and Baltic states also being married to person of East European family blood...... youth must also be celebrated now because its been equated with being malleable and.......stupid.

to conclude......people still enjoy taking advantage of those who do not know better......even in small ways as its predatory and why many global companies prefer to hire younger workers as they have less experience ............ so are less likely to tell coworkers and managers to kick rocks when harassed, disrespected or taken advantage of.

there lies an answer in the above para and to many current woes discussed...... were maybe the voice of young people now matters....... precisely because they are young and lots of policies and services affect them already and if they dont they soon will.......... so early education is certainly key to all matters of regional differences, of the social mobility which varies geographically, with some regions now showing greater potential than others.

Spaldy, you mentioned education........ for me good early education fosters critical thinking, creativity and problem solving abilities..... also building confidence and promoting social and economic development........crucial components for a countries progress leading to economic growth, greater civic engagement and a more peaceful society.

MOT

And I was worried about the length of.my post.

At least I made best attempt to respond to another members post, despite my very strong belief that they were talking out of their anus.

The last "contribution" has a huge amount of words that sadly mean next to nothing to us mere mortals.

Stop fence-sitting Mrs O, take a side why don't you?

[WTF11]

So, "the Mediator" has, via his mediator (Rubrio), been told by the Kremlin's mediator to f00k off, as nothing on the Ukraine situation has changed so the "summit" 🤣🤣🤣🤣in Hungary is no more. How surprising.

If Trump had a semblance of a pair, and a spine to match, he'd tell Putin to get back to pre-wartime borders and to give back the illegally seized Criteria, or face annihilation (without nuclear weapons)

He won't, because he has neither the spine nor the balls to make it happen.

Can you imagine Trump as.president during WWII? OMG!!!

[WTF11]

Should be "Crimeria" of.course!

[Oranje White]

@ WTF in your feeble opinion that is a brainwashers dream,...I need help. LOL. Coming from tne most unpopular person on this site.....I'll wear that as a badge of honour. Thanks. You repeatedly demonstrate the understanding of a simple child. If it's on the BBC or tne PM tells us, then it must be true. Right? Anyway, people here can see you for the simple minded gullible naive fool you are. I'm heading back to sea and don't have time for this anymore.
Unlikely either will change the others opinion. Thanks for demonstrating to us such a superb example of a "useful idiot". Stalin would be proud of you.