Maccabi Tel Aviv Fans

[Omegstrat6]

The 2024 incident led to 60 arrests and 4 prison sentences. The mayor of Amsterdam cited a "toxic combination of anti-Semitism, hooliganism and anger" with police and prosecutors highlighting that some anti-Semitic Pro-Palestinian protesters "actively sought out" Israeli supporters. The UK Football Policing Unit have largely based their decision on discussions with the Dutch authorities involved and, given both the current inflammatory circumstances and lack of required police resources, I can understand that.

The riots in Amsterdam appear to have been largely driven by anti-Semitic factions and so I can understand those who say that the decision to ban Maccabi supporters on the grounds that the UK police would not be able to keep them safe is a shameful failure but, on the other hand, surely it is better to be realistic at this time to avoid potential conflicts?

The majority of Muslims in this country I am sure will vehemently disagree with what Netanyahu has done in both Gaza and the West Bank but I am equally pretty certain that the majority are not Islamic extremists supporting the likes of Hamas. Likewise, I'm pretty certain that if the British Jewish community were outraged by the heinous attack by Hamas, the majority would still not agree with Netanyahu's actions either in Gaza or Palestine.

Sadly though, this is not about the law abiding or more reasonable majorities but rather the intransigent minority factions on both sides. There will, I am sure, be minority factions within the "Pro-Palestinian" protesters here who will be actively anti-Semitic and there will also likely be amongst the Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters a minority who will be right wing Zionists.

Of course, in an ideal world the Israeli supporters should be allowed to watch their team but If the risk assessments carried out genuinely show that the match cannot be properly policed then surely it is the right decision?

[baggieal]

The 2024 incident led to 60 arrests and 4 prison sentences. The mayor of Amsterdam cited a "toxic combination of anti-Semitism, hooliganism and anger" with police and prosecutors highlighting that some anti-Semitic Pro-Palestinian protesters "actively sought out" Israeli supporters. The UK Football Policing Unit have largely based their decision on discussions with the Dutch authorities involved and, given both the current inflammatory circumstances and lack of required police resources, I can understand that.

The riots in Amsterdam appear to have been largely driven by anti-Semitic factions and so I can understand those who say that the decision to ban Maccabi supporters on the grounds that the UK police would not be able to keep them safe is a shameful failure but, on the other hand, surely it is better to be realistic at this time to avoid potential conflicts?

The majority of Muslims in this country I am sure will vehemently disagree with what Netanyahu has done in both Gaza and the West Bank but I am equally pretty certain that the majority are not Islamic extremists supporting the likes of Hamas. Likewise, I'm pretty certain that if the British Jewish community were outraged by the heinous attack by Hamas, the majority would still not agree with Netanyahu's actions either in Gaza or Palestine.

Sadly though, this is not about the law abiding or more reasonable majorities but rather the intransigent minority factions on both sides. There will, I am sure, be minority factions within the "Pro-Palestinian" protesters here who will be actively anti-Semitic and there will also likely be amongst the Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters a minority who will be right wing Zionists.

Of course, in an ideal world the Israeli supporters should be allowed to watch their team but If the risk assessments carried out genuinely show that the match cannot be properly policed then surely it is the right decision?

Get your point Omeg and hope you are well. That said if you ban the Jewish supporters in a supposedly democratic country then there is only one winner. It?s interesting that one MP used one word to describe these football supporters and it was terrorists so you could imagine his ethnicity. It appears that our Home Secretary also knew of the decision a week ago and did nothing. The other side of the coin is the almost frequent mass protests in London which is a huge cost and results in police hurt, resources pulled and businesses damaged. Should these be stopped too? You can?t stop one without the other!

The other point is had Maccabi been playing in let?s say Leeds or Manchester I don?t feel there would have been the same uproar. Both these Cities have huge Jewish communities and they are far more law abiding than other ethnicities and us whites.

[Omegstrat6]

Get your point Omeg and hope you are well. That said if you ban the Jewish supporters in a supposedly democratic country then there is only one winner. It?s interesting that one MP used one word to describe these football supporters and it was terrorists so you could imagine his ethnicity. It appears that our Home Secretary also knew of the decision a week ago and did nothing. The other side of the coin is the almost frequent mass protests in London which is a huge cost and results in police hurt, resources pulled and businesses damaged. Should these be stopped too? You can?t stop one without the other!

The other point is had Maccabi been playing in let?s say Leeds or Manchester I don?t feel there would have been the same uproar. Both these Cities have huge Jewish communities and they are far more law abiding than other ethnicities and us whites.

Hi Al, I'm good thank you (if feeling a bit of trepidation about our game tomorrow!&#128513.

I totally agree that you shouldn't ban fans of any event based on just ethnicity/ colour/ religion etc. but just feel that in this particular instance, and in these particular circumstances, the decision may be prudent. There would, I am sure, be pro-Palestinian protests in the area if not in the stadium itself and the reaction to this (even if such protests were peaceful) by right wing Zionist elements of the Israeli fans would not be hard to predict. Sections of their fan base have been known to indulge in hooliganism and violence and at the Ajax game chanted racist anti-Arab slogans (as they have elsewhere). I am sure these factors have all fed into the decision not to allow the Maccabi fans to attend.

As for the pro-Palestinian protests, it cannot be denied that the cost in terms of policing is massive nor that they cause enormous disruption to transport, businesses etc. but the huge number of arrests made (nearly 500 the other weekend alone) does not mean that the majority of these were for violence -as the Mail and other media might suggest-but rather for holding placards and showing support for a proscribed group. In fact, the number of those arrested for assault or criminal damage out of that 500 didn't even make it into double figures I believe whilst those that were arrested for such offences in previous demonstrations included more far right counter protesters than pro-Palestinian ones.

It is true that these protests are enormously expensive to the public purse to police and true that they are very disruptive but it is demonstratively wrong to claim that they all lead to high levels of violence or damage to property. Even so, democratic right to protest or not, I do agree with you that the cost and disruption caused should mean that the number or scale of such protests should be limited now.

[baggieal]

Hi Al, I'm good thank you (if feeling a bit of trepidation about our game tomorrow!&#128513.

I totally agree that you shouldn't ban fans of any event based on just ethnicity/ colour/ religion etc. but just feel that in this particular instance, and in these particular circumstances, the decision may be prudent. There would, I am sure, be pro-Palestinian protests in the area if not in the stadium itself and the reaction to this (even if such protests were peaceful) by right wing Zionist elements of the Israeli fans would not be hard to predict. Sections of their fan base have been known to indulge in hooliganism and violence and at the Ajax game chanted racist anti-Arab slogans (as they have elsewhere). I am sure these factors have all fed into the decision not to allow the Maccabi fans to attend.

As for the pro-Palestinian protests, it cannot be denied that the cost in terms of policing is massive nor that they cause enormous disruption to transport, businesses etc. but the huge number of arrests made (nearly 500 the other weekend alone) does not mean that the majority of these were for violence -as the Mail and other media might suggest-but rather for holding placards and showing support for a proscribed group. In fact, the number of those arrested for assault or criminal damage out of that 500 didn't even make it into double figures I believe whilst those that were arrested for such offences in previous demonstrations included more far right counter protesters than pro-Palestinian ones.

It is true that these protests are enormously expensive to the public purse to police and true that they are very disruptive but it is demonstratively wrong to claim that they all lead to high levels of violence or damage to property. Even so, democratic right to protest or not, I do agree with you that the cost and disruption caused should mean that the number or scale of such protests should be limited now.

Always a difficult one politics Omeg and even my good wife is more to the left but my father raised me on the basis there was no such thing as a free lunch - for anyone! Bit rich those who represent Palestinian Action are calling out Starmer and saying awful things about the Maccabi fans when they caused millions of pounds worth are damage and are considered terrorists. Personally I don?t get involved in the Gaza situation other than to say many don?t even question Genocide in Sudan ( far worse ) and Hamas unless disarmed will start up again - it?s in the blood.

Anyway I have predicted a three one win to us tomorrow Omeg but not confident and it depends for me on the starting selection and intent to win the game.

I have a little bottle of Malbec screaming to be drunk so that will be my go too whilst watching our Darrell and Co tonight 😭

[Omegstrat6]

Always a difficult one politics Omeg and even my good wife is more to the left but my father raised me on the basis there was no such thing as a free lunch - for anyone! Bit rich those who represent Palestinian Action are calling out Starmer and saying awful things about the Maccabi fans when they caused millions of pounds worth are damage and are considered terrorists. Personally I don?t get involved in the Gaza situation other than to say many don?t even question Genocide in Sudan ( far worse ) and Hamas unless disarmed will start up again - it?s in the blood.

Anyway I have predicted a three one win to us tomorrow Omeg but not confident and it depends for me on the starting selection and intent to win the game.

I have a little bottle of Malbec screaming to be drunk so that will be my go too whilst watching our Darrell and Co tonight 😭

Agreed, very much about the intent shown tomorrow. As for the Tractor Boys tonight, despite the likelihood of seeing more than a few ex-Baggies, I might opt for something else on tv instead. Enjoy your Malbec!😁🍷

[Albionic68]

The 2024 incident led to 60 arrests and 4 prison sentences. The mayor of Amsterdam cited a "toxic combination of anti-Semitism, hooliganism and anger" with police and prosecutors highlighting that some anti-Semitic Pro-Palestinian protesters "actively sought out" Israeli supporters. The UK Football Policing Unit have largely based their decision on discussions with the Dutch authorities involved and, given both the current inflammatory circumstances and lack of required police resources, I can understand that.

The riots in Amsterdam appear to have been largely driven by anti-Semitic factions and so I can understand those who say that the decision to ban Maccabi supporters on the grounds that the UK police would not be able to keep them safe is a shameful failure but, on the other hand, surely it is better to be realistic at this time to avoid potential conflicts?

The majority of Muslims in this country I am sure will vehemently disagree with what Netanyahu has done in both Gaza and the West Bank but I am equally pretty certain that the majority are not Islamic extremists supporting the likes of Hamas. Likewise, I'm pretty certain that if the British Jewish community were outraged by the heinous attack by Hamas, the majority would still not agree with Netanyahu's actions either in Gaza or Palestine.

Sadly though, this is not about the law abiding or more reasonable majorities but rather the intransigent minority factions on both sides. There will, I am sure, be minority factions within the "Pro-Palestinian" protesters here who will be actively anti-Semitic and there will also likely be amongst the Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters a minority who will be right wing Zionists.

Of course, in an ideal world the Israeli supporters should be allowed to watch their team but If the risk assessments carried out genuinely show that the match cannot be properly policed then surely it is the right decision?

Did the mayor mention anything about them tearing Palestinian flags down and singing about dead kids in Gaza before being chased around and getting their heads kicked in? I've no idea whether they would have been targeted otherwise. Very possibly though.

In an ideal world there would have been no need for their flags to be flying in a foreign country and no need for the IDF in Gaza in the first place either. Still, fk around and find out. Same applies for both factions from start to finish on that night Balance in all things.

[regis80]

Did the mayor mention anything about them tearing Palestinian flags down and singing about dead kids in Gaza before being chased around and getting their heads kicked in? I've no idea whether they would have been targeted otherwise. Very possibly though.

In an ideal world there would have been no need for their flags to be flying in a foreign country and no need for the IDF in Gaza in the first place either. Still, fk around and find out. Same applies for both factions from start to finish on that night Balance in all things.

Exactly this 68. Those fans were also chanting that they will rape their girls.. look for the video. I’m sure baggieal et al with his disgust of grooming gangs (like all of us) will agree fans of these sort should not be allowed in.
The valencia floods they held a minute silence .. guess which set of fans booed during this? Disgusting.

If it was Galatasry fans being banned it would be okay then.

[baggieal]

Hi Al, I'm good thank you (if feeling a bit of trepidation about our game tomorrow!&#128513.

I totally agree that you shouldn't ban fans of any event based on just ethnicity/ colour/ religion etc. but just feel that in this particular instance, and in these particular circumstances, the decision may be prudent. There would, I am sure, be pro-Palestinian protests in the area if not in the stadium itself and the reaction to this (even if such protests were peaceful) by right wing Zionist elements of the Israeli fans would not be hard to predict. Sections of their fan base have been known to indulge in hooliganism and violence and at the Ajax game chanted racist anti-Arab slogans (as they have elsewhere). I am sure these factors have all fed into the decision not to allow the Maccabi fans to attend.

As for the pro-Palestinian protests, it cannot be denied that the cost in terms of policing is massive nor that they cause enormous disruption to transport, businesses etc. but the huge number of arrests made (nearly 500 the other weekend alone) does not mean that the majority of these were for violence -as the Mail and other media might suggest-but rather for holding placards and showing support for a proscribed group. In fact, the number of those arrested for assault or criminal damage out of that 500 didn't even make it into double figures I believe whilst those that were arrested for such offences in previous demonstrations included more far right counter protesters than pro-Palestinian ones.

It is true that these protests are enormously expensive to the public purse to police and true that they are very disruptive but it is demonstratively wrong to claim that they all lead to high levels of violence or damage to property. Even so, democratic right to protest or not, I do agree with you that the cost and disruption caused should mean that the number or scale of such protests should be limited now.

Exactly this 68. Those fans were also chanting that they will rape their girls.. look for the video. I’m sure baggieal et al with his disgust of grooming gangs (like all of us) will agree fans of these sort should not be allowed in.
The valencia floods they held a minute silence .. guess which set of fans booed during this? Disgusting.

If it was Galatasry fans being banned it would be okay then.

Anyone should be allowed to go to a football match Regis and any bad behaviour they should be locked up. As for booing a minutes silence come on - only recently some Palace supporters were booing the silence for the sad passing of the Liverpool player. I could go on about disgusting songs about tragedies such as Munich and Hillsboro which are sung even now plus Jimmy Saville appalling songs. All shameful.

The fact is it?s a football match and the Police should find the resources to cope with it like they they do for the frequent mass protests in London. Another poster said they deployed police from N Ireland to help in London.

Maybe the police for this match should ban any counter protests outside the stadium and also ban any country flags inside the stadium which could cause provocation. Just a thought.

To exclude the fans is fuelling antisemitism and Starmer knows it and to his credit now he?s trying to reverse the decision.

Any trouble makers including whites ( which there are many ) should be locked up.

Anyway - my head is pounding after too many wines and it?s wasn?t the wine not seeing much of Furlong last night. He was like Mr Invisible but he did do a good throw in 😭

[regis80]

Anyone should be allowed to go to a football match Regis and any bad behaviour they should be locked up. As for booing a minutes silence come on - only recently some Palace supporters were booing the silence for the sad passing of the Liverpool player. I could go on about disgusting songs about tragedies such as Munich and Hillsboro which are sung even now plus Jimmy Saville appalling songs. All shameful.

The fact is it?s a football match and the Police should find the resources to cope with it like they they do for the frequent mass protests in London. Another poster said they deployed police from N Ireland to help in London.

Maybe the police for this match should ban any counter protests outside the stadium and also ban any country flags inside the stadium which could cause provocation. Just a thought.

To exclude the fans is fuelling antisemitism and Starmer knows it and to his credit now he?s trying to reverse the decision.

Any trouble makers including whites ( which there are many ) should be locked up.

Anyway - my head is pounding after too many wines and it?s wasn?t the wine not seeing much of Furlong last night. He was like Mr Invisible but he did do a good throw in 😭

Based on your uneducated logic Al, those arriving on dinghies should be allowed to go to a match then? If the answer is no then again you’ve been found out. Just when will this misinformation you get and spread on here end? Disappointing that you think these fans should be allowed because it’s accepted Palace fans and other fans did lesser provocative stuff. Unbelievable. Hang your head in shame.

[baggieal]

Hi Al, I'm good thank you (if feeling a bit of trepidation about our game tomorrow!&#128513.

I totally agree that you shouldn't ban fans of any event based on just ethnicity/ colour/ religion etc. but just feel that in this particular instance, and in these particular circumstances, the decision may be prudent. There would, I am sure, be pro-Palestinian protests in the area if not in the stadium itself and the reaction to this (even if such protests were peaceful) by right wing Zionist elements of the Israeli fans would not be hard to predict. Sections of their fan base have been known to indulge in hooliganism and violence and at the Ajax game chanted racist anti-Arab slogans (as they have elsewhere). I am sure these factors have all fed into the decision not to allow the Maccabi fans to attend.

As for the pro-Palestinian protests, it cannot be denied that the cost in terms of policing is massive nor that they cause enormous disruption to transport, businesses etc. but the huge number of arrests made (nearly 500 the other weekend alone) does not mean that the majority of these were for violence -as the Mail and other media might suggest-but rather for holding placards and showing support for a proscribed group. In fact, the number of those arrested for assault or criminal damage out of that 500 didn't even make it into double figures I believe whilst those that were arrested for such offences in previous demonstrations included more far right counter protesters than pro-Palestinian ones.

It is true that these protests are enormously expensive to the public purse to police and true that they are very disruptive but it is demonstratively wrong to claim that they all lead to high levels of violence or damage to property. Even so, democratic right to protest or not, I do agree with you that the cost and disruption caused should mean that the number or scale of such protests should be limited now.

Based on your uneducated logic Al, those arriving on dinghies should be allowed to go to a match then? If the answer is no then again you’ve been found out. Just when will this misinformation you get and spread on here end? Disappointing that you think these fans should be allowed because it’s accepted Palace fans and other fans did lesser provocative stuff. Unbelievable. Hang your head in shame.

I thought you would be entering a debate on your own board with your good self and two others😂

Not long before kick off so Come on you Baggiessssss