Careless Tories!

[Trickytreesreds]

That's not the way Laws work and you know it. If there's a death penalty for murder then everybody facing murder charges could be executed if that was the verdict handed down.

One person wrongly executed is two too many, IMO. If there's a way to ensure that no innocent person ever gets executed, I'd be with you. However, it's simply not possible so Capital Punishment is a no no.

Not just for the sake of those wrongly executed. When we had the death penalty, the jury could recommend it as the punishment. Take the following scenario. A person gets found guilty of murder. The jury recommends the death penalty. The Judge agrees. The execution is carried out. The following year another person is arrested for several murders and admits to the one someone has been executed for. They give details of the murder that only the perpetrator could know and also gives up the location of the, so far, undiscovered body which is found exactly where they said it would be.

Someone has been executed for a crime they didn't commit. That's bad. A shame we can't make amends. Now, think of the anguish of family and friends of the person wrongly executed. Many lives, wrongly, blighted. Then there's the 12 people who who found the first suspect guilty and recommended having them killed. They would be devastated.

That's a lot of lives in turmoil for no other reason than your lust for "justice", for "blood".

Can never be released so why pay for them? Because we pretend to be a civilised society that finds wrongful execution intolerable and are prepared to pay to avoid that.

That is the way the law works and YOU know it.

If you commit a murder crime, there is a sentence attached to it.
Life sentences
If you’re found guilty of murder, a court must give you a life sentence. A court may decide to give a life sentence for other serious offences like rape or armed robbery.

If you’re given a life sentence it will last for the rest of your life.

If you’re ever released from prison you will spend the rest of your life ‘on licence’ in the community.

If you break licence conditions or commit another crime you can be sent back to prison.

So in essense, you may get life, but do you serve it? Very doubtful.

Rape
***ual Offences Act 2003, s.1

Effective from: 1 April 2014

Triable only on indictment
Maximum: Life imprisonment
Offence range: 4 – 19 years’ custody

So does a judge give the full 19 years every time? Does he **** as like.

Sorry, but a death sentence should be an option if a law tribunal agrees. I quoted Lee Rigby's murder. Do you believe those anmals deserved to live?

[Trickytreesreds]

Bit desperate that Tricky. How’s that list of yours going?

If you want a list, I'll sit down and do one later. What do you want, the tories last power run?

Doesn't explain your one sided bias and hypocrisy though does it. You can't stand on that pedastal and only look one way sunshine.

[ramAnag]

That's not the way Laws work and you know it. If there's a death penalty for murder then everybody facing murder charges could be executed if that was the verdict handed down.

One person wrongly executed is two too many, IMO. If there's a way to ensure that no innocent person ever gets executed, I'd be with you. However, it's simply not possible so Capital Punishment is a no no.

Not just for the sake of those wrongly executed. When we had the death penalty, the jury could recommend it as the punishment. Take the following scenario. A person gets found guilty of murder. The jury recommends the death penalty. The Judge agrees. The execution is carried out. The following year another person is arrested for several murders and admits to the one someone has been executed for. They give details of the murder that only the perpetrator could know and also gives up the location of the, so far, undiscovered body which is found exactly where they said it woøuld be.

Someone has been executed for a crime they didn't commit. That's bad. A shame we can't make amends. Now, think of the anguish of family and friends of the person wrongly executed. Many lives, wrongly, blighted. Then there's the 12 people who who found the first suspect guilty and recommended having them killed. They would be devastated.

That's a lot of lives in turmoil for no other reason than your lust for "justice", for "blood".

Can never be released so why pay for them? Because we pretend to be a civilised society that finds wrongful execution intolerable and are prepared to pay to avoid that.

Perfectly put, imo.

I do sometimes wonder if there may be a case for some sort of ‘choice’ though. I’m firmly of the opinion that in the cases of the likes of Hindley and Brady, Ian Huntley and Michael Adebolajo that ‘life’ should mean ‘life’ and nothing less.

Maybe in such cases there could be a choice of painless and ‘humane’ death as an alternative to life imprisonment.

Personally, in the same way as I cannot see the point of continuing to live if poor health makes my life not worth living, I also cannot even begin to contemplate - as an example - how dreadful Ian Huntley’s existence must be. I know he deserves it and the vast majority of those suffering debilitating disease certainly don’t but perhaps in both cases the ‘euthanasia’ option would be most fitting...it’s a complex and grown up debate that society seems determined to avoid.

[ramAnag]

If you want a list, I'll sit down and do one later. What do you want, the tories last power run?

Doesn't explain your one sided bias and hypocrisy though does it. You can't stand on that pedastal and only look one way sunshine.

Which bit is beyond your comprehension?
The last three or four years - coincidentally since Johnson became the role model - has seen sleaze allegation after sleaze allegation. The situation speaks volumes about the tone of the current Government and I provided, very quickly and easily, a list of Tory wrongdoers.
Such wrongdoing includes law breaking, rule breaking, financial wrongdoing, se*ual wrongdoing and repeated lying from those who govern us.
I have never denied that everyone in opposition isn’t squeaky clean but so far the best you’ve offered is calling Starmer names (wet lettuce and flip flop), O’Mara and a promise of your own list.
Still waiting...‘sunshine’!

[swaledale]

You don’t ‘disagree with any of that’ because you can’t. It is irrefutable.

Others in all Parties will ‘get the same amount of fury’, if and when it happens, BUT...what is happening NOW is what matters and, as I hope even you won’t attempt to deny, this is one area where the Tories have a very significant lead.

Sith...I can recall lots of political scandals but never one after the other, day in day out like this lot...and Starmer was found to be innocent because they had followed the rules. Simple as that.

I'm puzzled here as to why Tricky is claiming you only go on about the Tories rA, there has been plenty of publicity and fury over MP's from other parties who ahve transgressed and neither you or I ahve claimed otherwise.

However, the thread is "Careless Tories" and they are the party of Government who in the past 12 months have had one scandal after another outnumbering other parties MP's!

[swaledale]

Perfectly put, imo.

I do sometimes wonder if there may be a case for some sort of ‘choice’ though. I’m firmly of the opinion that in the cases of the likes of Hindley and Brady, Ian Huntley and Michael Adebolajo that ‘life’ should mean ‘life’ and nothing less.

Maybe in such cases there could be a choice of painless and ‘humane’ death as an alternative to life imprisonment.

Personally, in the same way as I cannot see the point of continuing to live if poor health makes my life not worth living, I also cannot even begin to contemplate - as an example - how dreadful Ian Huntley’s existence must be. I know he deserves it and the vast majority of those suffering debilitating disease certainly don’t but perhaps in both cases the ‘euthanasia’ option would be most fitting...it’s a complex and grown up debate that society seems determined to avoid.

No civilised society would have capital punishment and frankly rA, why shouldn't those who will never be released be subject to proper punishment? In some ways offering them a way out would be an insult. They should be made to contemplate what they have done for the rest of their lives IMO.

On the subject as to whether life should mean life, this is a very nuanced question and one the Justice system attempts to answer, not all cases are the same, the circumstances and situations etc. means however much people might want it to be so, its rarely black and white.

A Life sentence does mean life, in that even after release, any transgression can result in a recall to prison.

[Trickytreesreds]

Labour- seven Labour MP's who have been caged in the last ten years are: David Chayter, Eric Illsley, Denis MacShane, Fiona Onasanya, Jim Devine, Elliot Morley and now Claudia Webbe.
That is the tip of the spear. as an example in 2021 At least 55 Labour MPs, Councillors and Mayors have been arrested, charged, suspended, or placed under investigation in the first 6 months

But it is right across the board.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...cted_of_crimes

If you are going to sling mud, do it correctly and not to suit your agenda and bias.
IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN , BUT DOES AND CONTINUES TO.

[Trickytreesreds]

A Life sentence does mean life, in that even after release, any transgression can result in a recall to prison.

What a load of horse ****. If you are released, then it isn't life is it?
You are outside custody. You could walk out that prison and the same day stab an innocent to death.
OK you get jailed again?
But I'm sure that will make the victims family feel much better.

Nominated for stupidest comment of the year.

[ramAnag]

Labour- seven Labour MP's who have been caged in the last ten years are: David Chayter, Eric Illsley, Denis MacShane, Fiona Onasanya, Jim Devine, Elliot Morley and now Claudia Webbe.
That is the tip of the spear. as an example in 2021 At least 55 Labour MPs, Councillors and Mayors have been arrested, charged, suspended, or placed under investigation in the first 6 months

But it is right across the board.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...cted_of_crimes

If you are going to sling mud, do it correctly and not to suit your agenda and bias.
IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN , BUT DOES AND CONTINUES TO.

So that’s one then...in the last three or four years...Claudia Webbe who behaved not very well in a ‘domestic’ and was subsequently suspended from the Labour Party.
The vast majority of the others you’ve had to go back 10-13 years for, which again begs the question...which bit of ‘last 3-4 years don’t you understand.

You’ll have to expand on...‘as an example in 2021 At least 55 Labour MP’s, Councillors and Mayors have been arrested, charged, suspended or placed under investigation in the first 6 months’. It’s certainly a shocking allegation. Maybe needs a little more clarification and substantiation.

[ramAnag]

No civilised society would have capital punishment and frankly rA, why shouldn't those who will never be released be subject to proper punishment? In some ways offering them a way out would be an insult. They should be made to contemplate what they have done for the rest of their lives IMO.

I get that, Swale, indeed I thought much the same as I wrote it. I guess it’s striking a balance between the ‘revenge’ of making them ‘contemplate what they’ve done for the rest of their lives’ and the saving to the taxpayer where paying for an utterly futile and dreadful existence is concerned.
Very difficult indeed, but if for instance Ian Huntley, who’s guilt is not in any sort of question, were to request humane euthanasia as opposed to the possibility of half a century behind bars then I think - admittedly at a simplistic level - I’d favour him having that choice.