Careless Tories!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Interesting though it may be...it doesn’t seem to clarify how the contents of Abbott’s letter were ‘anti Semitic’.

I'm not suggesting that it does, I am widening the discussion a little which I know annoys you! But if Keir Starmer has said that is it anti semitic, that's good enough for me, even if not for you?

[SithHappens]

Keir Starmer has stated the comments were anti-semtic.

[Trickytreesreds]

If Diane Abbott, thinks having 6 million Jews /Gypsys slaughtered isn't racism but simple predjudice, on par with beung ginger, then she needs committing.

As for the comment, Jews weren't made to sit at the back of a bus or get manacled in ships. I'll say one word "Auschwitz"

They didn't even get a seat, they had to stand like cattle, with no food/water/toilets and were chained on parades through the streets.

Her comparisons at best are offensive. But the reality is, she not only said the first thing to come into her head, but wrote it as well.
But her track record on understanding racism is poor and biased to say the least.

Black mums will go to the wall for their kids unlike white mums
Taxi drivers are racist
White people love playing divide and rule
Blond haired, blue eyed Finnish nurses shouldn't be treating black people
She even hoped the IRA defeated white/racist Britian

Those are just off the top of my head, never mind the idiotic things she says.

She has suffered racist abuse from trolls herself. Not acceptable, but because shes the black victim, her abuse is worse than anyone else's.
She is the UK's own Whoopi Goldberg. A racism expert with blinkers on, that has a real anti jew streak running through them

Starmer, still has some serious rooting to do. The tip of the iceberg is only being exposed

[MadAmster]

Daftest thing is most Israelis aren't Semite. Quite how modern thinking has decided disagreeing with Israeli political stances is anti semitic is a mystery.

[ramAnag]

Lol...so suddenly two people who generally display nothing but contempt for Starmer are suddenly saying, ‘Starmer said it so it must be true’.
Strange about turn, whereas I don’t necessarily have to agree with every word a politician I generally greatly respect says, and in this case, if that is what he’s said, I’m sorry, but I don’t.

Resolution on here is simple...just provide an example of Diane Abbott’s letter being anti Semitic.
The letter is still available to see...I agree with all the following descriptions...disrespectful, foolish, ill judged, poorly written, insensitive, crass. It’s further proof, if proof were needed, that Diane Abbott is a flawed politician who may be a decent local MP but beyond that is something of a foot in mouth liability.
What I can’t see is how what she’s said is anti Semitic and, despite all the sound and fury being generated, no one has yet shown otherwise let alone proved that this is the tip of some Labour Party ‘anti Semitic iceberg’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

To quote what you often say yourself, I don't need to prove it, I let the words speak for themselves and the interpretation by her boss speak for itself too. I'm not fan of Starmer as a man of few original ideas (or maybe just keeping his powder dry) but this is a simple management decision and an exercise in damage limitation which seems entirely appropriate (whether factually or cynically). No need for him to go out on a limb to defend the indefensiblre.

When Starmer comes up with some ideas I will assess them, but as for now he is very much a non event, rather than someone to lead a nation in tatters (if indeed it is)

[ramAnag]

To quote what you often say yourself, I don't need to prove it, I let the words speak for themselves and the interpretation by her boss speak for itself too. I'm not fan of Starmer as a man of few original ideas (or maybe just keeping his powder dry) but this is a simple management decision and an exercise in damage limitation which seems entirely appropriate (whether factually or cynically). No need for him to go out on a limb to defend the indefensiblre.

When Starmer comes up with some ideas I will assess them, but as for now he is very much a non event, rather than someone to lead a nation in tatters (if indeed it is)

I disagree...surprise. Starmer has acted quickly, decisively and above all...pragmatically. Whether he’s right or not remains to be seen, but certainly Abbott has spoken foolishly, insensitively, unwisely and embarrassingly.

Beyond that, and I don’t recall saying what you suggest, it’s a bit of a cop out to avoid providing an example of what she’s said that is actually anti Semitic. You, and Tricky more particularly, have been mightily critical of what she’s written and of me defending one single aspect of what she’s been accused of.
It wasn’t a long letter...why can neither of you explain how what she’s written is anti Semitic? It really is that simple.

[Andy_Faber]

I disagree...surprise. Starmer has acted quickly, decisively and above all...pragmatically. Whether he’s right or not remains to be seen, but certainly Abbott has spoken foolishly, insensitively, unwisely and embarrassingly.

Beyond that, and I don’t recall saying what you suggest, it’s a bit of a cop out to avoid providing an example of what she’s said that is actually anti Semitic. You, and Tricky more particularly, have been mightily critical of what she’s written and of me defending one single aspect of what she’s been accused of.
It wasn’t a long letter...why can neither of you explain how what she’s written is anti Semitic? It really is that simple.

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

[ramAnag]

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

Actually what she said was...many types of white people with points of difference can experience prejudice but they are not subject to racism ‘all their lives’.

She also said that, Irish, Jewish and Traveller people ‘undoubtedly experience prejudice which is similar to racism’.

I agree with everyone that it is unhelpful to try and establish some sort of hierarchy of prejudice, but it isn’t anti Semitic.

This is a point made today by Simon Kelner who knows a thing or two. He criticises Abbott’s ineptitude and lack of ‘political nous’ but continues, ‘I cannot get furious about it....I find it hard to categorise Ms. Abbott’s letter as an incitement to hate Jewish people...
I find something equally distasteful in the pile on to which she has been subjected, some of which may, paradoxically, be racially inspired’.

For those who may not know, Simon Kelner is a Jew and former editor of The Independent. As I say, he knows a thing or two and may possibly have greater insight than any of us. I share his view completely.

P.S. So you still can’t come up with an example then, GP?

[Andy_Faber]

it isn’t anti Semitic.

yes it is, you can drag the odd fellah out to back you up but when the vast majority including her allies and others which should know say it is, then it is. So likewise I'm not wasting any more breath