OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

FOR THE UK

What power have you got? As devolved many years ago via Runnymede from the monarchy but we really do need a constitution to back up the operating legislation and body of care law

Where did you get it from? see above, ultimately taken by force in Civil War as well

In whose interests do you use it? usually those of the politicians and the interest groups that back them financially

To whom are you accountable? The electorate by quinquennial (?) elections and via budgets etc that are audited. Not perfect - indeed far from it - but at least some

How do we get rid of you? Parliamentary and local authority elections

CONTRAST HOWEVER FOR THE EU

What power have you got? Almost absolute and growing

Where did you get it from? Took it by stealth

In whose interests do you use it? That of the Germans, the French and to a lesser extent the newly emergent EU member states until the Germans and French feel ready to rape them.

To whom are you accountable? Absolutely no-one as our accounts make clear by their non auditable state

How do we get rid of you? You don't, we get rid of you

So our system is far from perfect but there are significant differences which enable the people to control the extremes of parliament via the ultimate sanction of dismissal. Sadly the European Commission is an uncontrolled leviathan and the European parliament a toothless tiger. Massive constitutional reform is needed in the EU before it even approaches becoming vaguely democratic.

Sort that issue out, create accountability to all of the people who "pay for it" whatever country they reside in, review and then dismiss plans to federalise the system - although this becomes vaguely acceptable if there are democratically elected bodies making the decisions. Then you might get my vote as the tariff free customs/trading union has obvious advantages.

But stay and fight? Cnut had a better chance trying to make the tide go back. Stay and slowly lose that battle since the unelected civil service dont want to sign their own death warrants. Whats the point. Negotiate power away from a group that have no right to the power they have: good luck with that. Easier to try to wrestle power away from Putin

[Trickytreesreds]

FOR THE UK

What power have you got? As devolved many years ago via Runnymede from the monarchy but we really do need a constitution to back up the operating legislation and body of care law

Where did you get it from? see above, ultimately taken by force in Civil War as well

In whose interests do you use it? usually those of the politicians and the interest groups that back them financially

To whom are you accountable? The electorate by quinquennial (?) elections and via budgets etc that are audited. Not perfect - indeed far from it - but at least some

How do we get rid of you? Parliamentary and local authority elections

CONTRAST HOWEVER FOR THE EU

What power have you got? Almost absolute and growing

Where did you get it from? Took it by stealth

In whose interests do you use it? That of the Germans, the French and to a lesser extent the newly emergent EU member states until the Germans and French feel ready to rape them.

To whom are you accountable? Absolutely no-one as our accounts make clear by their non auditable state

How do we get rid of you? You don't, we get rid of you

So our system is far from perfect but there are significant differences which enable the people to control the extremes of parliament via the ultimate sanction of dismissal. Sadly the European Commission is an uncontrolled leviathan and the European parliament a toothless tiger. Massive constitutional reform is needed in the EU before it even approaches becoming vaguely democratic.

Sort that issue out, create accountability to all of the people who "pay for it" whatever country they reside in, review and then dismiss plans to federalise the system - although this becomes vaguely acceptable if there are democratically elected bodies making the decisions. Then you might get my vote as the tariff free customs/trading union has obvious advantages.

But stay and fight? Cnut had a better chance trying to make the tide go back. Stay and slowly lose that battle since the unelected civil service dont want to sign their own death warrants. Whats the point. Negotiate power away from a group that have no right to the power they have: good luck with that. Easier to try to wrestle power away from Putin

Brilliant post Roger.
Which again beggars the question.
When free trade was such a brilliant idea, how was it allowed to be used as a tool to promote the above?


No one voted for that, EVER!!!!

Yet it is now the noose tied around your neck for non conformance. Has the whiff of a dictatorial to me.

QED

[ramAnag]

Brilliant post Roger.
Which again beggars the question.
When free trade was such a brilliant idea, how was it allowed to be used as a tool to promote the above?


No one voted for that, EVER!!!!

Yet it is now the noose tied around your neck for non conformance. Has the whiff of a dictatorial to me.

QED

‘Brilliant post Roger’? You might want to ask him why he voted ‘Remain’.
In the meantime...I’ll ask...what exactly has changed so much since the Referendum to make you do quite such an about turn then, RR?

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Brilliant post Roger’? You might want to ask him why he voted ‘Remain’.
In the meantime...I’ll ask...what exactly has changed so much since the Referendum to make you do quite such an about turn then, RR?

My guess would be the pathetic nonsense suggestions the EU has thrown on the table, in its farcical stance of negotiation.

1. Its solution to Ireland, is to separate NI from the UK its sovereign nation? Perhaps they'd like to try that with Catalan?
2. Its arrogant stance on cherry picking, then doing that very thing.
We will deal, but you can't negotiate with anyone else.
We still want your fishing waters
You have to abide by EU law

The latest one. TRUMP- if you impose tariffs, you have to include the UK (shock / horror)

See the irony here yet?

[roger_ramjet]

‘Brilliant post Roger’? You might want to ask him why he voted ‘Remain’.
In the meantime...I’ll ask...what exactly has changed so much since the Referendum to make you do quite such an about turn then, RR?

Absolutely nothing has changed.

There has been no about turn, rather a recognition of the way we are going forward.

Those constitutional dilemmas (aka sovereignty) were always the negatives that lead me to sit on the fence pre vote and they contrasted/offset the positives of a customs union. It was always that "simple" a choice in my head. The accountant in me voted remain, the democrat in me wanted to vote out.

When the national vote was to leave, then I took the removal of non democratic powers as the positive of leaving. Always look on the bright side of life.... especially when unsure which side of the fence is the best compromise.

[ramAnag]

Oh c’mon Roger...your post #3321 represents a total condemnation of the EU from someone who voted ‘Remain’...and then you enter May mode to claim, ‘absolutely nothing has changed’.
You were a Remainer with reservations...I totally get that...I even share many of your reservations, but your 3.54 post is OTT even to the point that OTTTTR applauded it.
You voted Remain but had concerns...how do you get from there to today given that virtually everything that has happened since seems to have had negative connotations for the UK?

[AdiSalisbury]

Do those negative connotations include the EU showing it's true colours?

[Manofpride]

Of course the EU are trying to stall and make problems, their main cash provider is leaving! They’ve milked us for years and it’s about to stop! Worried? They’ve a right to be. When we leave their walls will be a tumbling!

[ramAnag]

We are the ones who’ve decided to leave...to change ‘trains’ mid journey with no idea about the new destination.
How do you expect the EU to react? Their duty is to their members and we are in the process of giving up that membership.
When you find a bank, building society or, perish the thought, football club that continues to care about your well being once you’ve closed your account or not renewed your season ticket do let me know.

[MadAmster]

German industrialists are pushing Merkel et al to go easy as they see themselves losing a huge amount of trade if the barriers are "too high". French, Italian, Spanish, Swedish car manufacturers are stocking up on diapers at the thought of losing (one of?) their biggest export markets. Poland, along with a dozen more member countries are trying to combine to dethrone the Franco-German power base in the EU. If the "wrong" coalition ends up in power following the recent Italian elections then the EU will also have their hands full with them.

All is not rosy in the EU garden. Rocky times ahead for the EU and the UK whether Brexit goes through or not.

I might think of moving to Oz or join the Canucks but then you are a party to CETA.......