Match Thread vs. Grimsby 05.02.22 [NL]

[upthemaggies]

Replacing a head coach with another head coach probably wouldn't make an awful lot of difference. There's always room for improvement, but I can't imagine anybody else doing a much better job given the parameters (if that's the right word) a head coach at Notts has to work under.

As we've never been at this level before, it's hard to judge the owners, there's nobody else we can compare them to. Whether or not say the Trust, the Trews or Hardy would have faired any better in the NL is pure guess work, but it's hard to imagine Pavis or Dunnet doing worse in the 5th.

We can compare Burch with Ardley and on results alone Davy500 does have a valid point that Burch isn't an improvement, as things stand, but it's unfair to lay the blame all on Burch when he's seemingly so restricted. Then again he knew what the job entailed.

There are still a lot of games to play and finishing 2nd or 3rd would still give us a reasonable chance. Stockport v Chesterfield tomorrow so we would close the gap on at least one of them with a win v Barnet.

[jackal2]

Facts are not optimism Davy. They're facts.

I am indeed an optimist and you are the forum's champion pessimist, therefore I guess facts shouldn't suit either of us, but these definitely suit me.

It is actually very hard to 'give up' facts. Well, for me anyway...

How long have you been moderating this board Swale?

You should know better than anyone that this is a place for melodramatic, irrational, knee-jerk, short-term emotion!

I don't know, coming on here with your statistically accurate information and level-headed reflection. You need to sort yersen out, sonny!

[durhampie]

That lad Burchnall will never be any good at this level. Bloomin' PE teacher...

https://twitter.com/notts_stats/status/1490306393395638272?s=20&t=i_5l7cb1MQvvEHYddgKPAw

Our biggest problem is that we are very much a one dimensional team. Our style of football is ok against the teams who allow us to play our passing game. However, many teams in this division now seem to have found a way to stop the way we play. Grimsby being a classic example in the second half, playing high tempo pressing football, and we had no answer for it..
This has been a growing problem for quite a while, and what's worrying is that we dont have a solution, or wont try anything different.
Things need to change rather quickly, otherwise we will not be going out of this league anytime soon...

[jackal2]

Our biggest problem is that we are very much a one dimensional team. Our style of football is ok against the teams who allow us to play our passing game. However, many teams in this division now seem to have found a way to stop the way we play. Grimsby being a classic example in the second half, playing high tempo pressing football, and we had no answer for it..
This has been a growing problem for quite a while, and what's worrying is that we dont have a solution, or wont try anything different.
Things need to change rather quickly, otherwise we will not be going out of this league anytime soon...

I agree with all of the above, but I also take on board the information Swale has highlighted too. This doesn't have to be a case of Burchnall in versus Burchnall out. I think it's possible to offer constructive criticism on where the manager still needs to improve things, and yet at the same time recognise he's done some good work too.

[laddo]

Replacing a head coach with another head coach probably wouldn't make an awful lot of difference. There's always room for improvement, but I can't imagine anybody else doing a much better job given the parameters (if that's the right word) a head coach at Notts has to work under.

As we've never been at this level before, it's hard to judge the owners, there's nobody else we can compare them to. Whether or not say the Trust, the Trews or Hardy would have faired any better in the NL is pure guess work, but it's hard to imagine Pavis or Dunnet doing worse in the 5th.

We can compare Burch with Ardley and on results alone Davy500 does have a valid point that Burch isn't an improvement, as things stand, but it's unfair to lay the blame all on Burch when he's seemingly so restricted. Then again he knew what the job entailed.

There are still a lot of games to play and finishing 2nd or 3rd would still give us a reasonable chance. Stockport v Chesterfield tomorrow so we would close the gap on at least one of them with a win v Barnet.

If it's hard to imagine Pavis and Dunnet doing worse, it's also hard to imagine Hardy or the Trust doing better.

[laddo]

I agree with all of the above, but I also take on board the information Swale has highlighted too. This doesn't have to be a case of Burchnall in versus Burchnall out. I think it's possible to offer constructive criticism on where the manager still needs to improve things, and yet at the same time recognise he's done some good work too.

Agreed a bit of balance is sometimes needed. IB shows real promise but room for improvement.

Agree with Durhampie about being one dimensional (at times). Although results suggest that only quarter of the sides have (potentially) found it easy to play against. If teams no how to stop us playing why didn't Grimsby implement the high press from the start where I'm told from eye witnesses they gave us lots of room to play hence why we created lots of chances in that first half.

There seems to be a little more to this football management, strategy and tactics lark than first meets the eye.

[applepie2]

Richard money was an example it does not have to be him
Actually he got Cambridge promoted from the National league in 2015
His last 2 clubs were near the bottom when he arrived, but this still does not change the fact he has experience in the National league with Luton , finished 2nd, and got Cambridge promoted, the Walsall promotion was from 2007

It is the owners responsibility to hire the best managers they can , perhaps they could use there football rador to identify one with the revelent experience and success at NL and L2

I can’t be bothered to research the answer, but I do wonder how many seasons Richard Money, say, spent managing clubs level 5? If it’s more than 2, isn’t it a bit early to be comparing his record with Burchnall’s?

Even the sainted Sirrel didn’t get promotion every year, and he was a wonderful manager who only failed at Sheff United.

[jackal2]

I think one of the things going for Ian Burchnall is that most fans like him as a bloke and want him to do well, even if they have justifiable grumbles after games like Grimsby and Bromley. I think the same was true of Ardley, even though people got frustrated with his tactics too. Martin Allen was another one who connected with the fanbase.

Compare those with, say, Jamie Fullarton or the dour Jocky Scott and there was a completely different level of criticism and venom that came their way after a defeat, because neither had anything to endear them to the supporters.

[Elite_Pie]

Facts are not optimism Davy. They're facts.

I am indeed an optimist and you are the forum's champion pessimist, therefore I guess facts shouldn't suit either of us, but these definitely suit me.

It is actually very hard to 'give up' facts. Well, for me anyway...

The worrying FACT at the moment, whether an optimist or a pessimist, is that in the current PPG table we don't even make the playoffs. If every club continues the form they've shown so far this season until the end, we finish in 8th place.

Davy gets a lot of criticism on here for his pessimistic views, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. There's nearly half a season to go so we have a good chance to put things right, but that doesn't mean we will put things right. I said before the first game that Burchnall should be given the full season unless we were near the relegation places, and I still think the same. But now it's up to him to show he's as good as many seem to think he is. Basically, he needs to improve on what he's done so far if we want to progress.

For what it's worth I think we'll make the playoffs, but probably in 6th or 7th place. That would mean winning three games away from Meadow Lane to be promoted. It would also mean finishing in our lowest ever league position for the fourth consecutive season. If we did that and failed in the playoffs, the theory that we are making progress would be a hard one to justify.

[Maggie's Farm]

Facts are not optimism Davy. They're facts.

facts without context are bit dodgy though. I'd be interested to see what IB's performance trend line looks like. my guess - my worry - is he's becoming less succesful over time, but I'd happily be proven wrong...

I was defo in melodramaqueen mode yesterday because:

a) it's the Notts way

b) everything at the club seems set up for consistency - everything except the performances and results (and team shape, and personnel/position etc) on the pitch.