Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

Hopefully, they've videos of some of the people committing offences and are now trying to find out who they are and where they live in order to arrest, charge and bring to court for a fair trial.

... and yes, it is, indeed, the hope that kills.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Swale: by "far right demo" are you referring to the Unite the Kingdom March? Is your cateforisation of such not in itself inflammatory hate speech? Its akin to calling the pro Palestine protest marches "pro holocaust supporters|" or the like.

There will doubtless have been a core of right extremists involved but from the first hand reports I have heard the majority of those in attenance were normal generally apolitical people who are sick to the back teeth of govenrnmental (in their view) prioritisation of illegal immigrants over the indigineous population. I wouldnt term that belief far right but rather wanting the laws of the land to be enforced.

Perhaps I'm a little different in that I have no problem with controlled legal immigration but I wil not tolerate people entering the country illegally and being pandered to.

On a slightly less controversial note a mate of mine is doing a charity cross channel swim later this month (England to France). it seems that he has been warned of the normal dangers of this involving high seas, seasickness, hypothermia and jellyfish. This year they have been warned (during the night part of the swim) of the added dangers of being mowed down by small boats with no ID or lights....

[ramAnag]

Swale: by "far right demo" are you referring to the Unite the Kingdom March? Is your cateforisation of such not in itself inflammatory hate speech? Its akin to calling the pro Palestine protest marches "pro holocaust supporters|" or the like.

There will doubtless have been a core of right extremists involved but from the first hand reports I have heard the majority of those in attenance were normal generally apolitical people who are sick to the back teeth of govenrnmental (in their view) prioritisation of illegal immigrants over the indigineous population. I wouldnt term that belief far right but rather wanting the laws of the land to be enforced.

Perhaps I'm a little different in that I have no problem with controlled legal immigration but I wil not tolerate people entering the country illegally and being pandered to.

On a slightly less controversial note a mate of mine is doing a charity cross channel swim later this month (England to France). it seems that he has been warned of the normal dangers of this involving high seas, seasickness, hypothermia and jellyfish. This year they have been warned (during the night part of the swim) of the added dangers of being mowed down by small boats with no ID or lights....

All credit to your mate but has it occurred to you that those dangers - high seas, seasickness, hypothermia and jellyfish - are the very same dangers faced by the poor, terrified and desperate people on the small inflatable boats?

I don’t think you’re so different. No reasonable person should have a problem with controlled legal immigration and no one actually supports the concept of illegal immigration. See, we agree!

The fact is though, that through little other than an accident of birth, you and I have never had to face such challenges and hostilities. I don’t think the arrivals are exactly ‘pandered to’ either, but until the ‘haves’ of this world accept greater internationally organised responsibility for the ‘have nots’ then the problem is unlikely to go away.

[Geoff Parkstone]

All credit to your mate but has it occurred to you that those dangers - high seas, seasickness, hypothermia and jellyfish - are the very same dangers faced by the poor, terrified and desperate people on the small inflatable boats?

I don’t think you’re so different. No reasonable person should have a problem with controlled legal immigration and no one actually supports the concept of illegal immigration. See, we agree!

The fact is though, that through little other than an accident of birth, you and I have never had to face such challenges and hostilities. I don’t think the arrivals are exactly ‘pandered to’ either, but until the ‘haves’ of this world accept greater internationally organised responsibility for the ‘have nots’ then the problem is unlikely to go away.

As regards your first para, the perils are not dissimilar, save that he isnt in a boat all the time. The difference I suppose is that he is raising money for charity whereas they are committing a crime.

I take your point re "accident of birth" and "humanitarian" but Im likely less tolerant of charitable than you. Come to the country legally and submit you papers for official asylum (yes I know its diffiicult) then I dont mind. Sneak in under cover of darkness, disappear into the grey economy (and those employers do need sanctioning for supporting that network) and sap the system then Im on the side of the jellyfish.

[MadAmster]

I take your point re "accident of birth"

That works when you assume that, had your parents lived elsewhere, they would have had seks at the same time as they did here, that the same sperm would have fertilised the same egg.... Had they lived elsewhere, the chances are great that you wouldn't exist.

[ramAnag]

Swale: by "far right demo" are you referring to the Unite the Kingdom March? Is your cateforisation of such not in itself inflammatory hate speech? Its akin to calling the pro Palestine protest marches "pro holocaust supporters|" or the like.

There will doubtless have been a core of right extremists involved but from the first hand reports I have heard the majority of those in attenance were normal generally apolitical people who are sick to the back teeth of govenrnmental (in their view) prioritisation of illegal immigrants over the indigineous population. I wouldnt term that belief far right but rather wanting the laws of the land to be enforced.
.

I know you’ll think I’m defending Swale (he doesn’t need it) and extending my love affair with him (too ridiculous for words), but you question that it was a ‘far right demo’.
I’d suggest you look at the principle organisers before reaching a conclusion. If you can’t find them I’ll list them. They are all of a far right persuasion and in that respect it was, unquestionably, a ‘far right demo’.
Tbh I’m quite surprised there were as few as there were there. From the little I’ve read the absolute maximum number of participants was between 100,000 and 150,000 and I’m sure I, possibly you too, were on bigger student demos in London in the 1970’s
It really isn’t that big a number, especially in these troubled times, but it was, without a shadow of doubt, organised by those on the far Right.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I know you’ll think I’m defending Swale (he doesn’t need it) and extending my love affair with him (too ridiculous for words), but you question that it was a ‘far right demo’.
I’d suggest you look at the principle organisers before reaching a conclusion. If you can’t find them I’ll list them. They are all of a far right persuasion and in that respect it was, unquestionably, a ‘far right demo’.
Tbh I’m quite surprised there were as few as there were there. From the little I’ve read the absolute maximum number of participants was between 100,000 and 150,000 and I’m sure I, possibly you too, were on bigger student demos in London in the 1970’s
It really isn’t that big a number, especially in these troubled times, but it was, without a shadow of doubt, organised by those on the far Right.

I think there is a big difference between "who organises" and "who goes" in outlook. For sure the front men were of the extreme right persuasion but those who went were unquestionably more of a mixed (dare I say balanced) bag. As I said before, I was talking to two guys who went, neither are extreme and both voted labour at last election but are sick of what labour has done. I think they voted labour as a protest versus the mess the Tories created, but very much not extremists - just frustrted individuals.

My memories of student marches of youth are way smaller than that. But i was in Birmingham and twenty minutes in we mostly descended on a local pub to ease the tired legs!! I recall a "Workers, students, unite.Smash the social contrick" protest one Saturday but most people headed off to Villa Park in short order....

[ramAnag]

I think there is a big difference between "who organises" and "who goes" in outlook. For sure the front men were of the extreme right persuasion but those who went were unquestionably more of a mixed (dare I say balanced) bag. As I said before, I was talking to two guys who went, neither are extreme and both voted labour at last election but are sick of what labour has done. I think they voted labour as a protest versus the mess the Tories created, but very much not extremists - just frustrted individuals.

Just out of (genuine) interest. What is it they say that Labour have done that turns them towards supporting a convicted criminal loudmouth.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just out of (genuine) interest. What is it they say that Labour have done that turns them towards supporting a convicted criminal loudmouth.

Essentially viewd as having achieved nothing. Not addressed any of the election promises, u turns on own policies - particularly benefits clampdowns, in effect taxing the working man through taxing employers, done nothing to control illegal immigration, kow towing to minorities, sleaze and back handers - no different from Tories

[SithHappens]

I understand that those involved don't want to be labeled as far right thugs just because a minority are, but then it's only right immigrants aren't all labeled as criminals and rapists.

Anyway...On the subject of far right thugs and criminals and rapists from abroad, I wonder how things are going at Windsor today.