Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Can I just say one thing. We were discussing the impact of one Labour UTurn on capital markets and forex markets. Its is therefore utterly irrelevant what eg the forex rate was post Truss or pre Brexit. The question is how the markets reacted to the UTurn on the day - not where they ended up on the day compared to 3 or 9 years ago. Similarly how the capital markets spiked on the day, what rates were 3 or 9 years ago are irrelevant.

This is because we are trying to isolare the impact of one decision - Truss' budget disaster or reeves budget UTurn.

Let me try to put it in football terms. Derby sign a new striker for the start of next season who scores 10 goals in the first 10 games leaving us 5th in the EFL. How do you assess his impact on the team - do you look back on how well we were doing in 2022 or 2016? No you look at improvement (in this case) since the new player became influential. Same thing with political gaffes - you look at the performance indicator immediatley before and after the gaffe. In football terms you were trying to compare to a different squad playing in a different league.

Hope this makes a little more sense??

[ramAnag]

Can I just say one thing. We were discussing the impact of one Labour UTurn on capital markets and forex markets. Its is therefore utterly irrelevant what eg the forex rate was post Truss or pre Brexit. The question is how the markets reacted to the UTurn on the day - not where they ended up on the day compared to 3 or 9 years ago. Similarly how the capital markets spiked on the day, what rates were 3 or 9 years ago are irrelevant.

This is because we are trying to isolare the impact of one decision - Truss' budget disaster or reeves budget UTurn.

Let me try to put it in football terms. Derby sign a new striker for the start of next season who scores 10 goals in the first 10 games leaving us 5th in the EFL. How do you assess his impact on the team - do you look back on how well we were doing in 2022 or 2016? No you look at improvement (in this case) since the new player became influential. Same thing with political gaffes - you look at the performance indicator immediatley before and after the gaffe. In football terms you were trying to compare to a different squad playing in a different league.

Hope this makes a little more sense??

You can say whatever you like as long as we are both civil to one another.

To be completely honest once you start talking about capital markets and forex markets etc you are way over my head.

In my defence, although I appreciate the football analogy, I think the Reeves/Truss comparison was started by you and I merely ran with it.

Overall, I make no claim to understanding the minutiae of economic matters (just as well I here you say) but that does not prevent me from holding informed opinions on certain socio/economic issues.

To me the fact that so much is owned by so few and that the disparity between owners wealth and workers reward is so great, despite company achievements being an ultimately collective responsibility, is wrong. It is fundamentally unfair imo and that is really what the debate was about. Much is said about two tier Keir simply because the contrived rhyme holds an appeal for some, but the two, or more, tier system that we all live under warrants a great deal more attention imo.

[Geoff Parkstone]

You can say whatever you like as long as we are both civil to one another.

To be completely honest once you start talking about capital markets and forex markets etc you are way over my head.

In my defence, although I appreciate the football analogy, I think the Reeves/Truss comparison was started by you and I merely ran with it.

Overall, I make no claim to understanding the minutiae of economic matters (just as well I here you say) but that does not prevent me from holding informed opinions on certain socio/economic issues.

To me the fact that so much is owned by so few and that the disparity between owners wealth and workers reward is so great, despite company achievements being an ultimately collective responsibility, is wrong. It is fundamentally unfair imo and that is really what the debate was about. Much is said about two tier Keir simply because the contrived rhyme holds an appeal for some, but the two, or more, tier system that we all live under warrants a great deal more attention imo.

Not anything new there then. Review the history of UK for a moment. Let's pick serfdom, let's pick dickensian workhouses. You pick one....

Now let's compare this to today. There is a welfare state and a benefits support mechanism (not perfect we agree) a health and education system. Some sort of law and order. Most people in jobs get enough food, housing etc, Internet and communications, probably own a car, may well have an overseas holiday.

Yes they may look up to an Elon Musk or equivalent and think he's got so much more than me. But so would the serf to the baron, the workhouse orphan to the Duke. But I think I'd be happier as a "downtrodden worker" today than either serf or orphan At least my life expectancy is over 20 and I have a lot of the essentials.

Not saying the inequities are right but please don't make them out to be a new phenomenon. Over 100 years of Marxism hasn't made much of a dent -;your subsistence level Chinese "peasant" can attest to that when he looks at the concentration of wealth at the top.

None of this is a solution but these inequities have existed for a millennium. We can't expect a solution to be figured out amongst a dozen grumpy old men on a football forum.

[ramAnag]

Not anything new there then. Review the history of UK for a moment. Let's pick serfdom, let's pick dickensian workhouses. You pick one....

Now let's compare this to today. There is a welfare state and a benefits support mechanism (not perfect we agree) a health and education system. Some sort of law and order. Most people in jobs get enough food, housing etc, Internet and communications, probably own a car, may well have an overseas holiday.

Yes they may look up to an Elon Musk or equivalent and think he's got so much more than me. But so would the serf to the baron, the workhouse orphan to the Duke. But I think I'd be happier as a "downtrodden worker" today than either serf or orphan At least my life expectancy is over 20 and I have a lot of the essentials.

Not saying the inequities are right but please don't make them out to be a new phenomenon. Over 100 years of Marxism hasn't made much of a dent -;your subsistence level Chinese "peasant" can attest to that when he looks at the concentration of wealth at the top.

None of this is a solution but these inequities have existed for a millennium. We can't expect a solution to be figured out amongst a dozen grumpy old men on a football forum.

I take your point. I really do, but we are meant to be improving.

I will pick one. Epidemics and pandemics. In days gone by - in your words the days of serfdom or Victorian workhouses - those people would have been left to die. Covid would have been another Black Death, but - not including those who sought to profit from it - there is some evidence that we have improved in our attitude to certain communal and societal issues.

All I ask is why we cannot extend that? Why accept that it is some sort of God given right for the rich to get ever richer and simultaneously more powerful. We need to change and btw, who are you calling grumpy and are there really twelve of us?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well maybe 12 was a hyperbole.

Just watching a surprisingly good set by The Ocees at Glastonbury on catch up. Recommended only 5 piece band I've ever seen with 2 drummers.

[Andy_Faber]

Well maybe 12 was a hyperbole.

Just watching a surprisingly good set by The Ocees at Glastonbury on catch up. Recommended only 5 piece band I've ever seen with 2 drummers.

I saw that and good stuff. But you obviously weren’t in the absolute death trap that was The Sandpiper Club in Notts in 1979 to see Adam And The Ants (2 drummers) supported by my mates band The Talkies.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Was that a 5 piece band though?? The Allman Brothers generally had 2 drummers but we're at last a ***tet in the classic lineup. And the Tedeschi Trucks Band (featuring Derek not Uncle Butch) had two out of up to a dozen members.

[Andy_Faber]

Was that a 5 piece band though?? The Allman Brothers generally had 2 drummers but we're at last a ***tet in the classic lineup. And the Tedeschi Trucks Band (featuring Derek not Uncle Butch) had two out of up to a dozen members.

Adam And The Ants definitely were, I was there ‘roadying’ (lifting amps to get in free) for the support band. Yes the others were / are bigger combos.

Toyah sideman 🥸 Robert Fripp’s part time band King Crimsom has three drummers

[MadAmster]

Just seen this online from a "Labour spokesman", are the claims true?

"In just 12 months, this Labour government has boosted wages, delivered an extra four million NHS appointments, opened 750 free breakfast clubs, secured three trade deals and four interest rate cuts lowering mortgage payments for millions."

If it is true then I hope it gets as much coverage as scrapping the WFA and putting extra tests on some benefits, tests that appear to be designed to weed out false claims more than "certifying the dead as being fit for work"...

[Geoff Parkstone]

Like most things related to political statements there's likely just enough of a kernel of truth in the claims to vaguely support them.

But to claim credit for *four interest rate cuts lowering mortgage payments for millions." is stretching it a bit. Rate cuts are set by an independent body and given that most people opt for fixed rate mortgages it won't lower the cost until they can remortgage.

They may as well have also claimed to have made sure the sun went down each evening allowing us all to sleep better. Oh and won the Euro U21's...