O/T Disgrace Cummings

[WanChaiMiller]

I will look out for it, but fear that our understanding of the word deal will be somewhat different.

Im sure it will be.

[WanChaiMiller]

Read my posts then you’d find the answer

Not sure you understood the question. What would you be saying if it was a Blair Government and Campbell who had done it?

[animallittle3]

i always had you down as a reasonable open minded individual animal. the comment above makes me believe your political views have very little clout. even if someone does good you would not vote them in because you dont like the party. think ive mentioned this before. this is whats wrong with labour voters today.
o well thats my political contribution for another month back into hibernation

Didn't many traditional Labour voters vote Tory for the first time last December Cayton ?

I actually didn't vote at all myself and I didn't vote in 2005 either , Blair's third victory .

I presume what your inferring is that as a leaver and Johnson somehow pulls a trade deal rabbit out of the hat that would be good enough to get my Tory vote .

So one trade deal trumps the 28 years and counting I've had to go out and earn a living under a Tory government and pay my way in life ? .

That would also trump the fact that I disagree with their view of the role of the state , trickle down economics , privatisation of SOME former state controlled services and industries .

There's also the matter that in my opinion Johnson is the least credible PM this country's had in my lifetime with a team around him who aren't good enough to be in the jobs they hold .

There's no trade deal with the EU that's ever going to dismiss all the above with me personally .

To tell the truth and as a leaver it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to extend our stay in the EU for 12 to 18 months whilst we are all reeling from the affects of the pandemic and assess our economic position .

Our economic position this year could lead to a very bad deal or none at all .

I'm not suggesting we should re-join but 12 to 18 months isn't a great length of time either and we could concentrate more effectively on putting the fires out in the UK which are going to be significant to say the least .

[caytonmiller]

Didn't many traditional Labour voters vote Tory for the first time last December Cayton ?

I actually didn't vote at all myself and I didn't vote in 2005 either , Blair's third victory .

I presume what your inferring is that as a leaver and Johnson somehow pulls a trade deal rabbit out of the hat that would be good enough to get my Tory vote .

So one trade deal trumps the 28 years and counting I've had to go out and earn a living under a Tory government and pay my way in life ? .

That would also trump the fact that I disagree with their view of the role of the state , trickle down economics , privatisation of SOME former state controlled services and industries .

There's also the matter that in my opinion Johnson is the least credible PM this country's had in my lifetime with a team around him who aren't good enough to be in the jobs they hold .

There's no trade deal with the EU that's ever going to dismiss all the above with me personally .

To tell the truth and as a leaver it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to extend our stay in the EU for 12 to 18 months whilst we are all reeling from the affects of the pandemic and assess our economic position .

Our economic position this year could lead to a very bad deal or none at all .

I'm not suggesting we should re-join but 12 to 18 months isn't a great length of time either and we could concentrate more effectively on putting the fires out in the UK which are going to be significant to say the least .

Ok let's say Johnson pulls that rabbit on Brexit. Let's say he pours sensible money into the NHS (not like Blair did). And let's say the economy is strong. Yeah I know a very big bunny from a small Hat. But if he does that would he get your vote in 4 years time?

[great_fire]

Johnson was grilled by a committee yesterday made up of 14 Remainers and one Leaver, of course it's politically motivated, it's the Remainer Civil Service led by Mark Sedwill (who Cummings tried to get replaced), Remainer MPs (plus some of the ones in the ERG group who Cummings attacked in his blog), and the Remainer media, the aim is to get an extension to the transition period for a least a year and hopefully two.

You've not been paying attention for the last 4 years.

[animallittle3]

Johnson was grilled by a committee yesterday made up of 14 Remainers and one Leaver, of course it's politically motivated, it's the Remainer Civil Service led by Mark Sedwill (who Cummings tried to get replaced), Remainer MPs (plus some of the ones in the ERG group who Cummings attacked in his blog), and the Remainer media, the aim is to get an extension to the transition period for a least a year and hopefully two.

You've not been paying attention for the last 4 years.

Let's run with your view for the sake of argument Fire .

What you are saying is that Johnson aided by Cummings want to change the country .

The strategy Cummings has set out is to basically walk the corridors of Whitehall swinging a baseball bat .

This in effect is Thatcher picking a fight with the NUM in 1979 .

Except she knew she'd lose so chose to strike at a time when she'd won a second term and felt stronger after putting the pieces in place first .

Not only that Johnson is weak , Thatcher wasn't and you need guile and strength to change country's , Johnson and Cummings have neither .

There's some over stating of their abilities here , an attempted coup at best which in my opinion will be quashed and both their careers with it .

[great_fire]

Let's run with your view for the sake of argument Fire .

What you are saying is that Johnson aided by Cummings want to change the country .

The strategy Cummings has set out is to basically walk the corridors of Whitehall swinging a baseball bat .

This in effect is Thatcher picking a fight with the NUM in 1979 .

Except she knew she'd lose so chose to strike at a time when she'd won a second term and felt stronger after putting the pieces in place first .

Not only that Johnson is weak , Thatcher wasn't and you need guile and strength to change country's , Johnson and Cummings have neither .

There's some over stating of their abilities here , an attempted coup at best which in my opinion will be quashed and both their careers with it .

He definitely needs to be more diplomatic, he's attacked the right of the Conservative Party as well as the wets, he's attacked the media prior to this, made a lot of enemies, but if you look at his track record, campaigned successfully against joining the Euro, won the referendum campaign against the odds, helped to win an 80 majority for the Tories, who else can take on Whitehall and the vested interests?

The left say he's the "real" PM but the man who really has the most power is Mark Sedwill as head of the Civil Service and Cabinet Secretary and they've not been able to budge him so far.

There is a real battle going on over who rules, the government or the Civil Service but you also have to factor in the UN, the EU, the banks, the big tech companies.

[ragingpup]

He definitely needs to be more diplomatic, he's attacked the right of the Conservative Party as well as the wets, he's attacked the media prior to this, made a lot of enemies, but if you look at his track record, campaigned successfully against joining the Euro, won the referendum campaign against the odds, helped to win an 80 majority for the Tories, who else can take on Whitehall and the vested interests?

The left say he's the "real" PM but the man who really has the most power is Mark Sedwill as head of the Civil Service and Cabinet Secretary and they've not been able to budge him so far.

There is a real battle going on over who rules, the government or the Civil Service but you also have to factor in the UN, the EU, the banks, the big tech companies.

I'll try again Fire.

What do you think that Cummings wants to achieve if he succeeds with his aims of 'overthrowing' the civil service?

I'd be the first to agree that we could benefit with reviewing anything that blocks effective government, but what do you understand Cummings' end vision for the country to be? How will it be different to what we have today?

If you can explain that, maybe I could understand why you have so much faith in him? Without this, you're just supporting him in taking a hatchet to things that he might think are negative but are actually valuable. How do you know if you don't know his over riding plan?

[great_fire]

I'll try again Fire.

What do you think that Cummings wants to achieve if he succeeds with his aims of 'overthrowing' the civil service?

I'd be the first to agree that we could benefit with reviewing anything that blocks effective government, but what do you understand Cummings' end vision for the country to be? How will it be different to what we have today?

If you can explain that, maybe I could understand why you have so much faith in him? Without this, you're just supporting him in taking a hatchet to things that he might think are negative but are actually valuable. How do you know if you don't know his over riding plan?

Sedwill has way too much power, as well as the jobs I mentioned he's also the National Security Adviser, and unlike Cummings very people know his name.

So even though we've left the EU (kind of) we still have unelected bureaucrats running the country.

[ragingpup]

Sedwill has way too much power, as well as the jobs I mentioned he's also the National Security Adviser, and unlike Cummings very people know his name.

So even though we've left the EU (kind of) we still have unelected bureaucrats running the country.

Leaving aside the fact that you seem happy that unelected Cummings is running the government, could you put your finger on exactly what the negative impact of these unelected bureacrats have? What exactly do they do, or stop us doing, that makes you want them gone? Can you help me by giving some examples?

And if Cummings succeeds in ridding us of these people, what does he stand for then that you find so attractive and makes you overlook him lying to you?