O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[drillerpie]

There's quite a few Yanks who'd do exactly the same to them - they're on YouTube too. No shortge of loonies on either side.

The guy speaking is a former army commander and serving parlimentarian speaking on prime time state television. This is not normal.

[drillerpie]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, and that's actually a fairly tame one.

[drillerpie]

And still the United Nations and its Security Council can only wring their hands in fear of upsetting China or escalating into a nuclear war.

Tomorrow will see the fake democratic choice of parts of Ukraine voting to become Russian. This means that Putin can declare any future attack a cause for a tactical nuclear response.

As you say Putin and his anachronistic chronies are gangsters doing what Russia has always done in my lifetime, invade neighboring countries.

1948 Czechoslovakia
1951 Yugoslavia
1958 Hungary
1978 Afghanistan

plus countless others, taking action in the knowledge that the West would not wish to intervene.

Churchill was not far wrong in thinking:


USSR/Soviet Union/Russia has bred a criminal thug and a criminal empire. Fortunately the criminals have no honour and that is showing in the pathetic army and equipment they have built up.

Well the Security Council can't realistically do anything seeing as Russia and China are permanent members with a veto.

China is hedging its bets that by respecting sanctions but giving support and 'permission' to Russia to try and overthrow the post WW2 world order.

They can't lose either way. If Russia wins that strengthens their no limits partnership either Russia. If Russia loses they'll take advantage of its weaknesses to get cheap raw materials and investment opportunities in Russia's devastated economy.

The only way China loses is if it drags on in a stalemate for years, causing an economic downturn in the west which in turn means we import fewer Chinese goods. That's probably the reason why we're seeing Russian conscription shortly after the Russia/China summit in Uzbekistan. The Chinese have probably given Russia an ultimatum and a timeline to get it done or risk losing their support.

[LaxtonLad]

Well the Security Council can't realistically do anything seeing as Russia and China are permanent members with a veto.

China is hedging its bets that by respecting sanctions but giving support and 'permission' to Russia to try and overthrow the post WW2 world order.

They can't lose either way. If Russia wins that strengthens their no limits partnership either Russia. If Russia loses they'll take advantage of its weaknesses to get cheap raw materials and investment opportunities in Russia's devastated economy.

The only way China loses is if it drags on in a stalemate for years, causing an economic downturn in the west which in turn means we import fewer Chinese goods. That's probably the reason why we're seeing Russian conscription shortly after the Russia/China summit in Uzbekistan. The Chinese have probably given Russia an ultimatum and a timeline to get it done or risk losing their support.

China might be rather busy right now sorting out this mess with Taiwan now that the good 'ole USA has started rattling it's sabre in it's imagined role as the world's police. Taiwan, though, just might turn out to be the sacrificial pawn if it means China doesn't side with Putin. It wouldn't be the first time an Asian country has bested the supposedly 'Greatest Country in the World', diplomatically and tactically.

[Old_pie]

Well the Security Council can't realistically do anything seeing as Russia and China are permanent members with a veto.

Exactly and thus the system allows a member to act with impunity from the rest of the Security Council. I don't know the answer but that setup is as dated as the Soviet Union and needs some tweaking at least.

[drillerpie]

China might be rather busy right now sorting out this mess with Taiwan now that the good 'ole USA has started rattling it's sabre in it's imagined role as the world's police. Taiwan, though, just might turn out to be the sacrificial pawn if it means China doesn't side with Putin. It wouldn't be the first time an Asian country has bested the supposedly 'Greatest Country in the World', diplomatically and tactically.

Taiwan will never be a sacrifical lamb until the chip and superconductor supply has been diversified, and after that maybe, maybe not.

China also has its hands full with its zero covid policy and continuous lockdowns affecting industrial output, its collapsing property market and bank runs.

China has publicly stated its intention to take Taiwan by force in the next decade. The vast majority of Taiwanese don't want to be part of China. The threat of US involvement is the only thing that is currently stopping China taking it. Everyone can obviously make their own minds up whether that's a good thing or not. Am I correct in saying you think it isn't?

I notice you are two-for-two on changing the focus of posts from the death and destruction being caused by Russia's invasion of Ukraine around to a generic 'yeah but what about America?'. Yet presumably you have been happy to benefit from the the peace and prosperity North Atlantic countries have enjoyed since the US became the dominant world power?

[drillerpie]

Exactly and thus the system allows a member to act with impunity from the rest of the Security Council. I don't know the answer but that setup is as dated as the Soviet Union and needs some tweaking at least.

The predecessor of the UN was the League of Nations and it failed in the 1930s because it just became ineffective and irrelevant. Nobody could agree anything, and even if they did, nobody wanted to send their troops to enforce what had been agreed.

There was no penalty for agreeing one thing with the LoN and then going and doing something completely different. The UN has been heading that way for a while, unfortunately.

Having said that, it's virtually impossible to find a framework in which 3 competing powers (I've taken out UK and France as we were only included on the UNSC in 1946 as a nod to our pre-war status as dominant colonial powers) who are jostling for position in a new world order can unanimously agree about anything important.

I'm not optimistic the next 70 years will be anything like as good as the last 70 have been for us.

[drillerpie]

Taiwan will never be a sacrifical lamb until the chip and superconductor supply has been diversified, and after that maybe, maybe not.

Sorry, this should say semiconductor.

[keldsyke]

"Ukrainians have reported armed soldiers going door-to-door in occupied parts of the country to collect votes for self-styled "referendums" on joining Russia.

"You have to answer verbally and the soldier marks the answer on the sheet and keeps it," one woman in Enerhodar told the BBC.

In southern Kherson, Russian guardsmen stood with a ballot box in the middle of the city to collect people's votes."

Yes that all seems extremely fair and reasonable...

Yep, and to think some on here think they are hard done by. #realtycheck

[andy6025]

Congratulations to the people of Russia, and especially those of Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson on their referendums and today’s ceremonies to celebrate the occasion. May you know peace from the Ukrainian fascists soon!

...and as for the pipelines, it was obviously the Americans. The only question is who else knew - the Danes? The Poles? Liz “I’ll do it, I’ll do it, I can’t wait to push the button” Truss? But it’s fun to watch the western media try to blame it on Russia. Lol.

Good luck, Europe, you’re well and truly flucked this winter. Thank your good friends in the USA!