O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[forwardmagpie]

Some fair points, but I would reply to your last sentence. The issues can?t be resolved because despite the obvious issues with the EU, it was still in our best interests overall to remain.

I believe the EU is a useless and corrupt organisation that is doomed to failure. I voted to remain in a common market in 1975 which was a great idea. If we could go back to the common market without the political union it would still have my vote.

[bule1]

I believe the EU is a useless and corrupt organisation that is doomed to failure. I voted to remain in a common market in 1975 which was a great idea. If we could go back to the common market without the political union it would still have my vote.

I voted remain but do agree that the EU has major issues, just thought there was a better chance of improving things from inside the EU rather than outside. I my opinion there were and probably still are far too many unelected EU officials in Brussels with a massive Federalistic agenda and it is this combined with the immigration issues that have driven the rise in far right parties. I think that many who vote for them are not truely far right themselves, they just have no one else to vote for who seems to offer any serious solutions that address their concerns.

[forwardmagpie]

I voted remain but do agree that the EU has major issues, just thought there was a better chance of improving things from inside the EU rather than outside. I my opinion there were and probably still are far too many unelected EU officials in Brussels with a massive Federalistic agenda and it is this combined with the immigration issues that have driven the rise in far right parties. I think that many who vote for them are not truely far right themselves, they just have no one else to vote for who seems to offer any serious solutions that address their concerns.

I can?t disagree with your view of a Federalistic EU agenda Bule and your views on the reasons for the increase in the European votes for far right parties. We probably only disagree whether in the long term we will be better inside or outside the EU. I hope for our country I am right but I am not yet convinced and it maybe you were right.

[bule1]

Difficult one to answer and don't think we will ever know which was the right path, not that it matters now anyway. We are where we are and need to make the best of it

[SmiffyPie]

Difficult one to answer and don't think we will ever know which was the right path, not that it matters now anyway. We are where we are and need to make the best of it

Therein lies the answer. Brexit could be made to work now that the Cons have lost power, trouble is a large proportion of Remainers appear to take pleasure in crowing about the wrong bits instead of just gritting their teeth and proving their worth by turning it into a more positive thing. The whole aftermath has turned into an exercise in cutting noses off to spite faces!

[OchPie]

I don't think Brexit can be made to work - but what's more interesting to me is that polling has consistently shown the British public thinks it was a bad idea and we should rejoin, but no credible politician is willing to make the case.

I suspect there may be no point until the Tories return to being the party of business and return to being soft-Europeans. I doubt the EU would take a proposal to return seriously until that happened. And of course, the media still screams "Brexit betrayal" for anything that might marginally improve the ease of trading with our closest and largest market.

[keldsyke]

I don't think Brexit can be made to work - but what's more interesting to me is that polling has consistently shown the British public thinks it was a bad idea and we should rejoin, but no credible politician is willing to make the case.

I suspect there may be no point until the Tories return to being the party of business and return to being soft-Europeans. I doubt the EU would take a proposal to return seriously until that happened. And of course, the media still screams "Brexit betrayal" for anything that might marginally improve the ease of trading with our closest and largest market.

The EU is fecked, finished, move on make the best of it, if the lefties turned their crying and whinging into positive action we would be in a far better place.

[OchPie]

The EU is fecked, finished, move on make the best of it, if the lefties turned their crying and whinging into positive action we would be in a far better place.

There's plenty wrong with the EU but it's self-evidently not finished. Quite the opposite, I firmly predict that as the US retreats from a unipolar world and China asserts itself, being part of a larger bloc will start to seem like the only way to protect yourself.

Also, plenty of lefties voted for brexit and plenty on the right voted to remain. In any case it's not the responsibility of us remainers to fix what you broke. If we could have been in a far better place, it was your responsibility to make it happen, not ours. Don't cry that you failed to.

[SmiffyPie]

In any case it's not the responsibility of us remainers to fix what you broke. If we could have been in a far better place, it was your responsibility to make it happen, not ours. Don't cry that you failed to.

That is exactly what's wrong.

[OchPie]

That is exactly what's wrong.

Why? That's how politics works. Those in charge do what they believe is right, and either bring the people along or get kicked out.

Brexit isn't any different. If it had been demonstrated how it would make things better, and help was asked for, it'd have been given. Indeed the country voted for an oven ready deal to get it over with (a lie, sadly, since it was always going to be an ongoing process to define our relationship with the EU). But Brexiters abdicating responsibility for their choice - nope, they don't get to do that. Make it work, or get out the way and let someone else take a different approach.