Careless Tories!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I disagree...surprise. Starmer has acted quickly, decisively and above all...pragmatically. Whether he’s right or not remains to be seen, but certainly Abbott has spoken foolishly, insensitively, unwisely and embarrassingly.

Beyond that, and I don’t recall saying what you suggest, it’s a bit of a cop out to avoid providing an example of what she’s said that is actually anti Semitic. You, and Tricky more particularly, have been mightily critical of what she’s written and of me defending one single aspect of what she’s been accused of.
It wasn’t a long letter...why can neither of you explain how what she’s written is anti Semitic? It really is that simple.

I reiterate what Ive said earlier - if you cant see what everyone else here (that has expressed a view) and senior figures in her own party are seeing, then nothing I can say will change your mind. You have very entrenched views and, like most here, will not change them, so IM not wasting any more breath

[ramAnag]

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

Actually what she said was...many types of white people with points of difference can experience prejudice but they are not subject to racism ‘all their lives’.

She also said that, Irish, Jewish and Traveller people ‘undoubtedly experience prejudice which is similar to racism’.

I agree with everyone that it is unhelpful to try and establish some sort of hierarchy of prejudice, but it isn’t anti Semitic.

This is a point made today by Simon Kelner who knows a thing or two. He criticises Abbott’s ineptitude and lack of ‘political nous’ but continues, ‘I cannot get furious about it....I find it hard to categorise Ms. Abbott’s letter as an incitement to hate Jewish people...
I find something equally distasteful in the pile on to which she has been subjected, some of which may, paradoxically, be racially inspired’.

For those who may not know, Simon Kelner is a Jew and former editor of The Independent. As I say, he knows a thing or two and may possibly have greater insight than any of us. I share his view completely.

P.S. So you still can’t come up with an example then, GP?

[MadAmster]

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

The vast majority of Jews are NOT Semitic....

[Trickytreesreds]

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

What she is saying is, that unless you are black, no matter how severe your abuse is, it will never trump black abuse. In effect she has downgraded racism to a lesser crime for non blacks.
That in essense is racism on its own.
It isn't the first time either is it?

She has been anti white racist for decades, what ever your ethnicity is. The examples I gave were all racist comments and had they been said by a white person, all hell would have broken loose.
Can you imagine, a Tory MP saying, Brown eyed, black haired nurses from Jamaica, cannot treat white people, as they have never worked around them before?
As a politician, you would think she'd learn to shut her mouth at the correct time, but being the moron she is, never does.
Finally, her prejudices have caught up with her. Starmer binned Corbyn, he needs to see it through and bin her as well.

[Andy_Faber]

it isn’t anti Semitic.

yes it is, you can drag the odd fellah out to back you up but when the vast majority including her allies and others which should know say it is, then it is. So likewise I'm not wasting any more breath

[Andy_Faber]

It isn't the first time either is it?
.

Worryingly, and I mentioned 'role models' on an earlier thread, the idea seems tohave gained traction whether through Abbott or not I don't know. There was a programme on R4 last week in which a woman (I think from Clapton which is in or near Abbott's constituency) was arguing that cultural appropriation can only apply to (be suffered by) black people. BBC actually did something clever by using a black guy for the counter-argument but the issue was still there.

[MadAmster]

She has been anti white racist for decades

I would hope that all on here are. I'm anti all racists, in fact.

[Trickytreesreds]

brilliant. This isn't you RA is it? Was you in a second job?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nDRdNvOez8

[ramAnag]

No...it’s not me, Tricky...but well done...so far you’ve managed to recycle a collection of ‘Diane Abbott’s Greatest Hits’ from years ago, but proved yourself totally unable to substantiate your charge of antisemitism.
The first bit is very easy, she’s put her foot in it so many times. The second seems to be giving you a little more difficulty, but you’re not alone...no one has.
So far you seem to be relying on Keir Starmer’s disapproval. That’s fair enough...he’s usually a good judge. Funny thing is, I’ve never known you have a good word for him before.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The simplest way of explaining this so that even the most unconnected can understand: Abbott is saying that any given sleight on an Irishman, a traveller or a Jew (or a ginger FFS) is lesser in severity than the same sleight on a black person. That is by logic anti-Irish, anti-traveller, anti-Semitic and anti-ginge, the latter in a way the most worrying because hair colour is not a protected characteristic.

Can you be anti-ginger if the said ginger person had dyed their visible hair black or brown?

When I lived in Bermuda there were a number of indigenous Bermudians from St David's Parish who were black yet had ginger hair. How would you define "-ism" against them?