O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Med Pie]

A lot of the allure of Brexit was about pulling away from the EU and going back into the fold of English speaking / commonwealth countries. A free trade deal with the USA was spoken about.


Although it's been badly negotiated, with the Indian and American and I think Australian (?) deals, that's exactly what was happening.


We actually got a 10% tariff slapped on us by the USA. A lot of it is to be decided still but hopefully we will avoid their poisonous food.

The last government was negotiating with China and British farmers were angry about that because it would've allowed cheap low wuality imports in. Not sure hownthat ended up.

We got some kind of deal with India but Starmer was criticised for allowing Indian immigration as part of that.

Not that he 'allowed' it but he encouraged it by making them exempt from NI contributions

The fact is even the brashest most brazen politician in the biggest economy in the world has had to walk back a lot of promises about how amazing his trade deals will be and how other countries will capitulate. I feel sorry for the fisherman but it's hard to get trade deals done as I think is quite clear for all to see now. Sometimes you have to give away something you don't want to.

They asked for a four year agreement and got twelve, on what planet is that good negotiating?

The days when we could whopp our collective cock on the desk of some faraway country and demand trade on our terms are long gone by about 200 years.

Going back over old ground I know, but maybe having more or less free trade with our nearest neighbours and being part of their collective negotiations with other countries (increased bargaining power) for trade deals wasn't that bad.

'Collective' being the term, under EU rules, we wouldn't have been allowed to make deals with America to reduce tariffs or any other, bilateral agreement.



I know there was unhappiness with immigration but I think we've seen that wasn't purely an EU issue.

Instead of reducing immigration, his actions have opened the gates, quite literally, to the potential for hundreds of thousand more to enter the UK, legally.

I think Starmer is OK. Obviously lacking in charisma but that was priced in, and at least he's just getting on with his job without being all over the TV and newspapers. He seems quite pragmatic to me.

I'll state again, I am not anti immigration but we need doctors, dentists, nurses, not hundreds of thousands of cabbage pickers with a less than basic grasp of our language, but if BFP can take his Poodle on holiday, we surely got a great deal!

[forwardmagpie]

Even as something as simple as making it easier to bring your dog on holiday will just make life better for lots of people. As will unlimited use of e gates.

But no, the narrative will be the same old bs about betrayals and taking away Brexit freedoms whatever tf they are. Absolutely insane.

I understand and admire your need to support everything this government does. It is very important that travellers will have something as simple as unlimited use of E gates as a needed concession from the EU but is the statement correct?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7zzgdz3jgo

[BigFatPie]

I understand and admire your need to support everything this government does. It is very important that travellers will have something as simple as unlimited use of E gates as a needed concession from the EU but is the statement correct?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7zzgdz3jgo

No I dont support this government no matter what, it isnt a football team. What I do support is a government trying to make it easier for businesses to trade and for people to work and go on holiday in Europe. While hopefully making some stuff cheaper as well.

Not sure what there is to disagree with here. No one on either side is ever going to get everything they want.

[SmiffyPie]

I guess this is possibly leading to the Brexit that should have been (cooperation and all that) but to flog the sea bed to the EU hoovering machine for another 12 years seems a high price to pay just to let people through a bloody customs gate quicker! (and to crow about it).

[Elite_Pie]

I guess this is possibly leading to the Brexit that should have been (cooperation and all that).

Agree, but once we left cooperation was never on the agenda.

to flog the sea bed to the EU hoovering machine for another 12 years seems a high price to pay just to let people through a bloody customs gate quicker! (and to crow about it).

I would agree again if that's all we gained, but I'm sure you know it isn't. I don't believe Starmer when he says the deal is "win win" because I don't think the fishermen win, but the potential for easier trade with our biggest customer means there will be a lot more winners than losers. I see it as the first small step to righting the wrongs of the catastrophic Brexit vote.

[i961pie]

Agree, but once we left cooperation was never on the agenda.



I would agree again if that's all we gained, but I'm sure you know it isn't. I don't believe Starmer when he says the deal is "win win" because I don't think the fishermen win, but the potential for easier trade with our biggest customer means there will be a lot more winners than losers. I see it as the first small step to righting the wrongs of the catastrophic Brexit vote.

But will the Brexit voters see it as a win win when the election comes around?
Mind you a lot can happen in a week in politics never mind 4 years.

[Elite_Pie]

But will the Brexit voters see it as a win win when the election comes around?

Difficult one. If we had a general election tomorrow, I'm pretty sure Reform would be in power.

Mind you a lot can happen in a week in politics never mind 4 years.

That gives me hope that if I'm still around they won't be in power. If you look at the history of people like Farage and Tice, what boxes do they tick as people you would want to govern you? I realise you could say the same of many political leaders whatever the party, but if you really want 'change', unless you hate the thought of immigrants how would Reform be a change for the better?

[forwardmagpie]

No I dont support this government no matter what, it isnt a football team. What I do support is a government trying to make it easier for businesses to trade and for people to work and go on holiday in Europe. While hopefully making some stuff cheaper as well.

Not sure what there is to disagree with here. No one on either side is ever going to get everything they want.

Or you could answer the question, is there unlimited use of E gates as you stated or is it still to be sorted as Mr McFadden says it?s a possibility or probability

[Elite_Pie]

Or you could answer the question, is there unlimited use of E gates as you stated or is it still to be sorted as Mr McFadden says it?s a possibility or probability

It's still to be sorted and probably won't happen soon, but if bloody E gates are what you focus on in the deal you are looking pretty desperate.

[forwardmagpie]

It's still to be sorted and probably won't happen soon, but if bloody E gates are what you focus on in the deal you are looking pretty desperate.

I didn?t focus on it BFP did.

But as usual it?s good of you to ride in on his behalf

For us with a desperate lack of focus what are the good points of this deal