Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Thats right because black youth always look for positive role models in the stands - Fat Sid from Chad who ate all the pies - rather than at those on the pitch - Adams, Ozoh, Agyemang, Sanderson etc etc who proudly play for their clubs and countries.

Same with cricket and Asian youth - positive role models at county and England level plus influxes of overseas one day players into domestic one day cricket. On the subject of which I find it hard to believe that at the England v India test match you recently went to at Old Trafford there were few brown faces. Every time I've seen India play at International level their fans make up probably 25%-30% of the crowd, are noisy and visible and dont support England (their choice).

But the bottom line is that noone does or can make someone pay for or watch a sporting event. Its not something in any way comparable to the TV adverts issue (if indeed it is an issue - Im with you and Sith and never watch adverts) but in that acting role individuals are selected for a role and that selection process may or may not have ethnic bias, be that disproportionate or otherwise. If you had pointed to the fact that no black kids were being picked for England football team, or Asians for cricket team, it would be relevant. But they are, based on talent, and rightly so. But spectating or working behind the scenes at a ground - give it a rest.

It wasn’t me who introduced the ‘working behind the scenes at a ground’ aspect. It was AF.

Believe it or not, my experience at Old Trafford was that the vast majority of the Indian fans - about an estimated 10% of the whole crowd - were all grouped together in one part of the ground. In much the same way as those English fans who wish to drink to excess and sing tedious songs are encouraged to stay in Old Trafford’s ‘Party Stand’ (or the Hollies Stand at Edgbaston) so, I imagine, the Indian fans, who wish to drum incessantly throughout the match, were encouraged to gather together in a particular section.

Everything was amicable and that’s how it was. When the Aussies come for the Ashes, they also tend to gather together in their green and gold enclaves.

I’m honestly struggling to make much sense of the rest of your post.

[Geoff Parkstone]

It wasn’t me who introduced the ‘working behind the scenes at a ground’ aspect. It was AF.

Believe it or not, my experience at Old Trafford was that the vast majority of the Indian fans - about an estimated 10% of the whole crowd - were all grouped together in one part of the ground. In much the same way as those English fans who wish to drink to excess and sing tedious songs are encouraged to stay in Old Trafford’s ‘Party Stand’ (or the Hollies Stand at Edgbaston) so, I imagine, the Indian fans, who wish to drum incessantly throughout the match, were encouraged to gather together in a particular section.

Everything was amicable and that’s how it was. When the Aussies come for the Ashes, they also tend to gather together in their green and gold enclaves.

I’m honestly struggling to make much sense of the rest of your post.

Usually the case when you are trying to extract yourself from a stupid post/opinion

As for cricket, its a bit different at Lords in my experience although the Oval does tend to kettle Aussies and indeed West Indian fans (or they did when the Oval was the epicentre of West Indian support when they had a strong team). However like you Ive never experienced any trouble at cricket matches between supporters, nor at Rugby (15 a side, never tried 13) whilst at footballl....

[Geoff Parkstone]

Rather than listen to what might turn into the usual entrenched positions being excavated here, type ‘ Are non-whites over represented in uk tv adverts’ into Deepseek, which has no bias that I’m aware of

It’s funny the things people of a certain persuasion - Ms. Pochin and Co. spring to mind - get hung up about. Yet they seem reluctant to look at the other side of the ‘quota’ coin.
Some of my favourite things are, in no particular order, attending live sport, live theatre, live music events, walking in rural Derbyshire and country pubs.
Next time any of us are at Pride Park I suggest you have a look around at the crowd. Think I’d guarantee it’ll be around 90% white. The same was true at the Test Match I went to at Old Trafford last August and I imagine the international rugby match crowd I’ll be part of at Everton next Saturday will be much the same.
A couple of weeks ago I attended Nottingham Playhouse and, apart from a smattering of Asian pupils from Oakham public school, the audience was very largely white, while last Saturday evening my wife and I ran a bar at a Live ‘n Local gig. The star of the show was an excellent black violinist from Minnesota who fronted an equally excellent folk rock fusion band. The audience was universally white.
The same is invariably true when I’m out walking and calling in at a country pub and if all those are a tad too anecdotal, it’s a fact that, of all our representatives in Parliament, just 14% are non white.
Just sayin’…but maybe food for thought for those with open minds.

Interesting observations ...from a well heeled middle class rural dwelling retiree, to I admit another.

So why do we think there is an under representation of diverse groups sharing your (our) passions. Let's think and start with (1) age (2) capacity to pay. I believe it's true that the "elderly" are less diverse. Secondly the activities you mention require significant financial outlay - 100 quid plus just for a test match ticket, let alone getting there, food and the odd bevy.

Not to say that black or Asian folk can't all afford these pursuits but as they are usually in younger age demographics they have different financial priorities - family, mortgage, career etc and arguably less disposable income as a result.

As for the walks/country pub argument, that's ridiculous. That will be more down to the places people live. Ethnic minorities are, like it or not, more urban dwelling and are therefore more likely to be into urban pursuits than a bracing moorland stroll in the rain and 80 mph wind!

But to reverse your argument, I'm a huge fan of gangsta rap drill and hip hop and, **** me, you hardly see a white face at those concerts. So what does that say about the overall population: must I be living in a 98% black country. No. I love bhangra dancing but have spent years looking for a 65 year old white dance partner to join me but there always loads of brown faces there. I must be in Calcutta.

The country as a whole might be 15% (???) non white but that doesn't mean that the same mix have to have the same interests or attend similar events.

[SithHappens]

Is Sarah Pochin right that there is a disproportionate amount of Black and Asian people on TV? Possibly. Is she right to be furious about it?

That I'm not sure.

I think it's ok to be angry that a certain party is gaining a disproportionate amount of airtime. But to be bothered because my cornflakes are advertised by a black person instead of white just does seem racist to me.

Now if the narrative is that white people are being deliberately overlooked for tv roles so that quotas are met then it's a different discussion, no one had claimed that ( as far as I know), but if they are then yes I'd agree this is wrong.

As I said yesterday, when debating it's understanding what we are actually debating about.

[Andy_Faber]

Is Sarah Pochin right that there is a disproportionate amount of Black and Asian people on TV? Possibly. Is she right to be furious about it?

That I'm not sure.

I think it's ok to be angry that a certain party is gaining a disproportionate amount of airtime. But to be bothered because my cornflakes are advertised by a black person instead of white just does seem racist to me.

Now if the narrative is that white people are being deliberately overlooked for tv roles so that quotas are met then it's a different discussion, no one had claimed that ( as far as I know), but if they are then yes I'd agree this is wrong.

As I said yesterday, when debating it's understanding what we are actually debating about.

The BBC have a published quota which I believe exceeds the national demographic I believe, I’ll stand corrected on that

The ‘debate’ as I read it, and the discussion has broadened to encompass other over represented minorities since social media helped let the genie out of the bottle, is that ‘we’ (the public) are being conditioned into believing that ‘that’s how the world is now’, despite the real world evidence. The debate I’ve seen isn’t that it’s happening, it’s why. Just my observation, not really even my opinion but worthy of discussion

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ive just come back from a nice breezy walk in the neighbouring countryside. Just popped in the oak beamed pub on the way back for a pint to warm myself up in front of the blazing log fire... god dammit there was a black labrador hogging the heat. Dont see many of those around these parts, seems Goldie the English Cream has been moved on.

[MadAmster]

Things go in cycles. Swings, roundabouts and pendulums. For years, people of colour hardly ever saw a successful person who looked like them. One can understand that such a situation could convince them that are destined to miss out on fame and fortune. It strengthened white's feeling of superiority and and coloured's feeling of insecurity. That was wrong, IMO. There has been an increase in "public facing roles" for non-white's. The pendulum has swung the other way and is now out of balance the other way. It will swing back and hopefully get stuck in the middle at sensible levels. You can't, again IMO, have EVERYTHING at quotas equal to a group's % of the population. Some appear better at sports, others have a drive to be lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. Rock performers are mainly white. Soul performers mainly black. 60 years ago most UK R&B and Blues performers were white, that has reversed.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"you, don’t seem to recognise the problem of black and Asian people being apparently reluctant to engage in the type of leisure/entertainment activities that the likes of you and I feel comfortable attending."

Youre absolutley right I bloody well dont. What makes you so presumptuous as to know that those groups of people want to go to the same events as you or I do and what makes you so presumptuous as to know that they dont because they would feel uncomfortable to do so. Ive never heard anything so ****ing ridiculous in my life.

When you were 18 would you have wanted to go to an event that your grandad liked, I dont know, such as a Russ Conway concert or to see Max Bygraves do a comic turn. Of course you wouldnt. So why do you presume people dont attend the same things as you or I might want to "because they dont feel comfortable". Maybe, just maybe, they dont go because they dont want to go, because perhaps they dont enjoy it. Maybe because they have a limited budget and dont prioritise it, prefer to spend the money on something they enjoy.... So you are going to give them free tickets to go and sit bored staring at their phone just because you would have enjoyed it yourself if you were them????

My kids wouldnt want to go and see Pink Floyd play in concert (if still possible) any more than I'd want to go see Central C or Digga D. Yes I had to google them too! But you cant impose your values/enjoyment on people with different and cultural values, interests and ages just because YOU think YOU know whats best for them, and its "right on" / "woke". People are different, celebrate that difference, dont try to force them into your box of self righteousness.

[ramAnag]

"you, don?’t seem to recognise the problem of black and Asian people being apparently reluctant to engage in the type of leisure/entertainment activities that the likes of you and I feel comfortable attending."

Youre absolutley right I bloody well dont. What makes you so presumptuous as to know that those groups of people want to go to the same events as you or I do and what makes you so presumptuous as to know that they dont because they would feel uncomfortable to do so. Ive never heard anything so ****ing ridiculous in my life.

When you were 18 would you have wanted to go to an event that your grandad liked, I dont know, such as a Russ Conway concert or to see Max Bygraves do a comic turn. Of course you wouldnt. So why do you presume people dont attend the same things as you or I might want to "because they dont feel comfortable". Maybe, just maybe, they dont go because they dont want to go, because perhaps they dont enjoy it. Maybe because they have a limited budget and dont prioritise it, prefer to spend the money on something they enjoy.... So you are going to give them free tickets to go and sit bored staring at their phone just because you would have enjoyed it yourself if you were them????

My kids wouldnt want to go and see Pink Floyd play in concert (if still possible) any more than I'd want to go see Central C or Digga D. Yes I had to google them too! But you cant impose your values/enjoyment on people with different and cultural values, interests and ages just because YOU think YOU know whats best for them, and its "right on" / "woke". People are different, celebrate that difference, dont try to force them into your box of self righteousness.

Ooops. Seem to have hit a nerve there.

Anyway, nothing to do with me thinking I know what’s best for people or imposing my values on them and nothing to do with age either. That’s a completely different issue and just another example of you deflecting with a huge red herring.

Fact is that approximately 43% of Premiership footballers are black but only an estimated 13% of spectators are. Why is that do you think? Lack of interest? I think not.

Another fact is that, according to the Arts Council, 92% of British theatre leaders are white and there are concerns about the cultural disconnect which has led to both theatres and museums attracting predominantly white ‘audiences’.

Years ago, on one of many theatre trips which I organised for relatively deprived kids, I made a point of insisting that a notoriously difficult te enager could only come on the trip if he understood that he was sitting next to me at Buxton Opera House throughout a production of the Hobbit. People thought I was mad taking him, but he was actually as good as gold and thoroughly enjoyed the production, although I’ve never forgotten him saying at the interval, ‘brilliant innit sir…not for the likes of us though is it?’

Perhaps the proven reluctance or inability of black/Asian people to access such entertainment should be more of a concern then than how many black/Asian faces appear in TV advertising. It is to me. Apparently not to you, but self righteousness doesn’t come into it. It’s all about offering opportunity and equality.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Let me draw a line under this. I couldn't agree less. It's up to them to select their preferred entertainment and ensure it's personally affordable. You can even have the last word as I'm sure you will want.