OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Manofpride]

I don't disagree with most of that, my point is different, and that is that every Remainer who who's life's work has been to work towards a reversal of the decision has contributed to post-Brexit UK being weaker than it would otherwise be.

I agree with that! Once the the vote to leave was won Brexiteers and remainers should have all got behind Brexit and all worked together for the best way forward to leave the EU. Remainers losing the vote just came out scare mongering to try and turn the vote they lost. I think leaving without a deal is the way. We voted leave so let's leave.

[Andy_Faber]

I agree with that! Once the the vote to leave was won Brexiteers and remainers should have all got behind Brexit and all worked together for the best way forward to leave the EU. Remainers losing the vote just came out scare mongering to try and turn the vote they lost. I think leaving without a deal is the way. We voted leave so let's leave.

I'd forgotten this thread existed

Pleased you understand it, but there are too many Remainers (and TV Channels ahem BBC) that don't, or do and can't get over themselves

[ramAnag]

I agree with that! Once the the vote to leave was won Brexiteers and remainers should have all got behind Brexit and all worked together for the best way forward to leave the EU. Remainers losing the vote just came out scare mongering to try and turn the vote they lost. I think leaving without a deal is the way. We voted leave so let's leave.

Then you are horribly, horribly wrong and part of what I hope is a very small minority.

Brexit has never had the support of more than a minority of the electorate...FACT.
The campaign was based on a pack of lies...FACT.
The Brexiteers appear to have broken electoral law...FACT.
Preparation for the stockpiling of medicines and food...the use of an airport as a lorry park...the likely paralysis of motorways in SE England...the collapse in the value of the £...the murder of Joe Cox and today’s abuse and intimidation of Anna Soubry by far right Brexiteers is not ‘scare mongering’ it is...FACT.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yeah but Swales done OK out of it, and so has this new ferry company with no ferries that's being run by a guy I know...

[MadAmster]

Then you are horribly, horribly wrong and part of what I hope is a very small minority.

Brexit has never had the support of more than a minority of the electorate...FACT.
The campaign was based on a pack of lies...FACT.
The Brexiteers appear to have broken electoral law...FACT.
Preparation for the stockpiling of medicines and food...the use of an airport as a lorry park...the likely paralysis of motorways in SE England...the collapse in the value of the £...the murder of Joe Cox and today’s abuse and intimidation of Anna Soubry by far right Brexiteers is not ‘scare mongering’ it is...FACT.

Brexit has never had the support of more than a minority of the electorate...FACT. More voted Leave than voted Remain. That was enough for Leave to carry the day under the rules of the referendum and the vast majority of people DID understand that. It was classed as an advisory vote but Cameron had made it clear that the Tories would follow whichever point of view gained the most votes. The most amazing thing to me is that they actually kept to that "promise". FACT

The campaign was based on a pack of lies...FACT. Indeed, BOTH campaigns were guilty of this. FACT

The Brexiteers appear to have broken electoral law...FACT. Appear, yes. Nothing proven as yet..... the rich (read the Tories) want Brexit to have been realised before anything gets proved in Law as, once out, the new EU Laws against tax evasion/avoidance will NOT apply to the UK. FACT

Preparation for the stockpiling of medicines and food...the use of an airport as a lorry park...the likely paralysis of motorways in SE England...the collapse in the value of the £...the murder of Joe Cox and today’s abuse and intimidation of Anna Soubry by far right Brexiteers is not ‘scare mongering’ it is...FACT. Not sure on this. Are these measures no more than a contingency because they don't know if there will be a problem or not? What we don't know is whether a Remain vote would have tipped someone else over the edge and have a different MP killed. The intimidation of Anna Soubry is, to me, just wrong.

What is the best of the current options?

No deal and using WTO tariffs will, according to some, be catastrophic. Others say it will be worth several billions to the economy. I don't know enough of the intricacies to pass judgment.

A deal would see the UK:
1. Still in a/the Customs Union
2. Freedom of movement would still be in force
3. The Irish backstop could see the UK bound by EU law but not involved in the making of that Law for an indeterminate amount of time, maybe permanently.

I also think that leaving with the May deal will see riots on the street due to 1 and 2 above. The current yellow vest problems in France will, unfortunately, look like an afternoon in the kindergarten compared to what I fear will happen in the UK.

[ramAnag]

Brexit has never had the support of more than a minority of the electorate...FACT. More voted Leave than voted Remain. That was enough for Leave to carry the day under the rules of the referendum and the vast majority of people DID understand that. It was classed as an advisory vote but Cameron had made it clear that the Tories would follow whichever point of view gained the most votes. The most amazing thing to me is that they actually kept to that "promise". FACT



The campaign was based on a pack of lies...FACT. Indeed, BOTH campaigns were guilty of this. FACT

The Brexiteers appear to have broken electoral law...FACT. Appear, yes. Nothing proven as yet..... the rich (read the Tories) want Brexit to have been realised before anything gets proved in Law as, once out, the new EU Laws against tax evasion/avoidance will NOT apply to the UK. FACT

Preparation for the stockpiling of medicines and food...the use of an airport as a lorry park...the likely paralysis of motorways in SE England...the collapse in the value of the £...the murder of Joe Cox and today’s abuse and intimidation of Anna Soubry by far right Brexiteers is not ‘scare mongering’ it is...FACT. Not sure on this. Are these measures no more than a contingency because they don't know if there will be a problem or not? What we don't know is whether a Remain vote would have tipped someone else over the edge and have a different MP killed. The intimidation of Anna Soubry is, to me, just wrong.

What is the best of the current options?

No deal and using WTO tariffs will, according to some, be catastrophic. Others say it will be worth several billions to the economy. I don't know enough of the intricacies to pass judgment.

A deal would see the UK:
1. Still in a/the Customs Union
2. Freedom of movement would still be in force
3. The Irish backstop could see the UK bound by EU law but not involved in the making of that Law for an indeterminate amount of time, maybe permanently.

I also think that leaving with the May deal will see riots on the street due to 1 and 2 above. The current yellow vest problems in France will, unfortunately, look like an afternoon in the kindergarten compared to what I fear will happen in the UK.

Nothing you or anyone else says can disguise the fact that 63% of the electorate did not vote for Brexit which was in any case only ever advisory. So...the ‘advice’ was that 37% of the electorate wanted to withdraw from the EU...that is a ‘minority’ whichever way you look at it so...yes...it is a FACT.

You’re probably right, both sides lied...but the two biggest lies that probably led to the most support were the £350m to the NHS ‘battlebus’ one and the ‘these negotiations are going to be easy’ one. Was the electorate misled...YES.

Leaving the tax avoidance issue to one side for a moment...shouldn’t we assess whether electoral law was broken by the ‘victors’ before ploughing on regardless? Even in the all too often corrupt world of football if a team was found guilty of fielding ineligible players there would be a rematch or a points discussion.

Finally...are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn’t do what is right for the country because the far right and the more extreme Brexiteers will riot if they don’t get their way? Doesn’t sound like you ‘Amster...that really would be giving in to the lowest common denominator of mob mentality.

[ramAnag]

Points deduction...not discussion...sorry.

[Manofpride]

Nothing you or anyone else says can disguise the fact that 63% of the electorate did not vote for Brexit .

Who's fault is that? 67% of the population didn’t vote Remain!!!!. More Brexiteers were interested in the vote than remainers, that's why the Brexiteers won the vote, end of!

[MadAmster]

1. Nothing you or anyone else says can disguise the fact that 63% of the electorate did not vote for Brexit which was in any case only ever advisory. So...the ‘advice’ was that 37% of the electorate wanted to withdraw from the EU...that is a ‘minority’ whichever way you look at it so...yes...it is a FACT.

2. You’re probably right, both sides lied...but the two biggest lies that probably led to the most support were the £350m to the NHS ‘battlebus’ one and the ‘these negotiations are going to be easy’ one. Was the electorate misled...YES.

3. Leaving the tax avoidance issue to one side for a moment...shouldn’t we assess whether electoral law was broken by the ‘victors’ before ploughing on regardless? Even in the all too often corrupt world of football if a team was found guilty of fielding ineligible players there would be a rematch or a points discussion.

4. Finally...are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn’t do what is right for the country because the far right and the more extreme Brexiteers will riot if they don’t get their way? Doesn’t sound like you ‘Amster...that really would be giving in to the lowest common denominator of mob mentality.

1. Yes 63% didn't vote Leave. Conversely 67% didn't vote remain. FACT

2. I always saw the NHS figure as no more than a "could be" rather than a promise. IMO the negotiations could have been easy if the government had come up with a strategy within 6 months of the vote and then gone for it rather than waiting till the last minute before botching together a plan to take us out whilst leaving us in. Despite that, I agree, the electorate were misled...... by both sides.

3. Electoral Law should be looked into and the exceeding of budgets should also be investigated. Again, with a definite time frame known for the past 2 years there should have been far more urgency placed on it.

4. Not suggesting that at all. My thoughts are that May has spent the past 2 years telling the UK populace over and over again that Freedom of movement will stop and that the UK would NOT be in any kind of Customs Union. Under the May agreement there WILL be freedom of movement and there will be a Customs Union and the UK will adhere to EU laws both old and new but will have no say in those Laws. It hurts me to say it but that is what will trigger a summer and maybe longer of extreme civil unrest. Not for it but I believe it will happen. I don't have the same fears in the event of a no deal exit from the EU.

[ramAnag]

1. Yes 63% didn't vote Leave. Conversely 67% didn't vote remain. FACT

2. I always saw the NHS figure as no more than a "could be" rather than a promise. IMO the negotiations could have been easy if the government had come up with a strategy within 6 months of the vote and then gone for it rather than waiting till the last minute before botching together a plan to take us out whilst leaving us in. Despite that, I agree, the electorate were misled...... by both sides.

3. Electoral Law should be looked into and the exceeding of budgets should also be investigated. Again, with a definite time frame known for the past 2 years there should have been far more urgency placed on it.

4. Not suggesting that at all. My thoughts are that May has spent the past 2 years telling the UK populace over and over again that Freedom of movement will stop and that the UK would NOT be in any kind of Customs Union. Under the May agreement there WILL be freedom of movement and there will be a Customs Union and the UK will adhere to EU laws both old and new but will have no say in those Laws. It hurts me to say it but that is what will trigger a summer and maybe longer of extreme civil unrest. Not for it but I believe it will happen. I don't have the same fears in the event of a no deal exit from the EU.

1. You’re right, but we should never regard 37% as ‘the Will of the People’...that’s just nonsense.

2. Maybe it’s because you live in Holland but there was nothing ‘could be’ about the daily appearance on TV of the sign emblazoned on the side of Boris’ ‘battle bus’.

3. Entirely agree...so why are we beating ourselves up by following the ‘advice’ of a minority that was probably achieved by breaking the rules especially now the damaging likely outcome has become so much more evident?

4. So what you are really concluding is that the likely behaviour of ‘disappointed’ Brexiteers will be a whole lot less acceptable and a great deal more intimidating than that of equally disgruntled ‘Remainers’. I’m inclined to agree. All the evidence so far would appear to suggest you are right but I repeat...giving in to the mob rule threatened by ‘right wingers’ should not, imo, be an option or even a consideration.