DFCSS Fans Rep Update

[BCram]

Just because someone has had a union sponsored course on negotiating it doesn't make them a good negotiator. Just like the ones that get union sponsored HSW course and who then try to tell the company NEBOSH qualified HSE expert that they know more than them.

In case it isn't clear I'll clarify that I hate unions and don't understand anyone giving them any time of day. If Dee4L announced that they'd brought someone from a union negotiating background in to speak to JN on their behalf I'd immediately cancel my membership.

I am still not convinced that listening to someone who has made an offer to help the cause, and has a different skill set from the current board, ois a bad idea.
I understand your principled objection. I just disagree with it.

[Deeranged]

I am still not convinced that listening to someone who has made an offer to help the cause, and has a different skill set from the current board, ois a bad idea.
I understand your principled objection. I just disagree with it.

Not an issue with anyone disagreeing, especially as my hatred of anything trades union is fairly pointed verging on irrational.

I also agree that finding someone with the desired skill set is worth while.

[BP33]

The requirement for two representatives of Dee4Life to sit on the board is in the club's Articles Of Association which is a binding document under company law. Islay will know more abut that.

Dee4L is currently a very weak organisation which doesn't want to rock the boat further than it already is rocking. Therefore they do not challenge JN on anything, they seem to believe they'll get more response from him by Kow Towing and talking; despite the fact that he won't talk to them. JN has rejected a proposal of a primary representative stating that it was an act of aggression (or something) and they just backed down.

I actually agree with them not taking any direct legal action since it would just create bad feeling with the members and the wider support. It would also strengthen the position of the DSA who can do no wrong in JN's eyes.

The present owners are bankrolling the club, and without them we would certainly not be playing in the SPL.

It?s common knowledge that the custodians before FPS were approximately 2 months away from running out of money to keep the club afloat.

What would a Dee4life nominee bring to the table now?

For what it?s worth, I would agree that if it?s legally binding, a Dee4life nominee should be on the board.

[Deeranged]

The present owners are bankrolling the club, and without them we would certainly not be playing in the SPL.

It?s common knowledge that the custodians before FPS were approximately 2 months away from running out of money to keep the club afloat.

What would a Dee4life nominee bring to the table now?

For what it?s worth, I would agree that if it?s legally binding, a Dee4life nominee should be on the board.

Difficult to say with any certainty that without the current owners Dundee FC wouldn't be in The SPL. We don't know that something else, possibly even better, wouldn't have come up had the members of DFCSS voted not to accept the take over by FPS. It may have been unlikely but it's only speculation to say any other outcome would definitely not have come about.

A Dee4Life nominee would bring nothing to the table at all and all parties know that. However the fact that John Nelms refuses categorically to even discuss it with Dee4Life doesn't (IMO) show the man in a particularly good light.

[islaydarkblue]

But DSA claim X number members because they claim the members of their affiliated clubs as members of DSA despite the vast majority of those individuals having next to no interest in the DSA and, let's be honest, the vast majority of them having no interest in their clubs except when it's time for the ticket con.

John Nelms buys into all of the DSA lies unfortunately.

John Nelms has stated that the DSA have about 6,000 members which is more people than attend most home games at Dens Park.
Nelms must be including all the members of the Friends of Dundee FC Facebook group who do not pay a membership fee when they become a member. There are a number of members of the Friends of Dundee FC Facebook group who are also a member of a DSA affiliated supporters club.
Several new Dundee FC Supporters clubs were admitted to become DSA affiliated supporters club at the DSA AGM on 31st August 2024.
I do not know the exact number of DSA affiliated supporters clubs but I think that it is around 36 with some having a handful of paid up members up to the ?big? supporters clubs having about 150 paid up members.

[Deeranged]

John Nelms has stated that the DSA have about 6,000 members which is more people than attend most home games at Dens Park.
Nelms must be including all the members of the Friends of Dundee FC Facebook group who do not pay a membership fee when they become a member. There are a number of members of the Friends of Dundee FC Facebook group who are also a member of a DSA affiliated supporters club.
Several new Dundee FC Supporters clubs were admitted to become DSA affiliated supporters club at the DSA AGM on 31st August 2024.
I do not know the exact number of DSA affiliated supporters clubs but I think that it is around 36 with some having a handful of paid up members up to the ?big? supporters clubs having about 150 paid up members.

I'd estimate that well over 50% of the fans attending home games have no affiliation to DSA. Of those that do have that affiliation I'd estimate that less than 25% will have any interest in the machinations of DSA. The vast, vast majority of members of Supporters' Clubs just won't care that membership of that club includes a levy to DSA to maintain the club's affiliation.

6,000 is a fantasy land 'membership' number to quote and I find it absolutely ridiculous, verging on gullible, that JN gives any credence to this number. Reality is that the DSA has 36 (if that number's correct) member club not 6,000 'members'. On top of the Facebook thing there will also be people who are members of multiple DSA affiliated clubs so some could be counted three or more times in the La La Land 6,000.

Dundee FC has around 4,000 season ticket holders most of whom can't get tickets for big games, the Queens Park game for example, because non season ticket holding DSA affiliates who attend twice a season are before them in the queue - scandalous. The club's focus as regards its customers is miles off.

[BCram]

I'd estimate that well over 50% of the fans attending home games have no affiliation to DSA. Of those that do have that affiliation I'd estimate that less than 25% will have any interest in the machinations of DSA. The vast, vast majority of members of Supporters' Clubs just won't care that membership of that club includes a levy to DSA to maintain the club's affiliation.

6,000 is a fantasy land 'membership' number to quote and I find it absolutely ridiculous, verging on gullible, that JN gives any credence to this number. Reality is that the DSA has 36 (if that number's correct) member club not 6,000 'members'. On top of the Facebook thing there will also be people who are members of multiple DSA affiliated clubs so some could be counted three or more times in the La La Land 6,000.

Dundee FC has around 4,000 season ticket holders most of whom can't get tickets for big games, the Queens Park game for example, because non season ticket holding DSA affiliates who attend twice a season are before them in the queue - scandalous. The club's focus as regards its customers is miles off.

Some good points Deeranged. Is there a way that Dee4life could become a member of DSA? Would that help to defuse the division that appears to exist between both, fan based organisations.

[GB72]

Not an issue with anyone disagreeing, especially as my hatred of anything trades union is fairly pointed verging on irrational.

I also agree that finding someone with the desired skill set is worth while.

You just need to look on what side Unison has sided with in the trans nurse hearing to tell you everything you need to know about unions.

Any woman paying into that union in particular needs their head examined.

[islaydarkblue]

Some good points Deeranged. Is there a way that Dee4life could become a member of DSA? Would that help to defuse the division that appears to exist between both, fan based organisations.

Dee4life cannot become a member of the DSA but you might remember that the DSA were part of Dee4life until they decided to leave in August 2014.
I heard that the DSA were poor at providing receipts to the treasurer of Dee4life for expenditure carried out by themselves for DSA events and that was one of the reasons why they left.
Nelms wanted the members of the Open Letter Group to join the DSA so that the DSA committee members could keep them under control.
In the event the Open Letter Group turned out to be a failure after Nelms refused to answer a detailed list of questions they had submitted to him.
This is similar to the Dundee City Council planning officers submitting questions to Nelms in June 2024 regarding his PPIP application which do not appear to have been answered as there was no mention of it being discussed at the Dundee City Council Planning Committee February 2025 meeting.

[islaydarkblue]

The present owners are bankrolling the club, and without them we would certainly not be playing in the SPL.

It?s common knowledge that the custodians before FPS were approximately 2 months away from running out of money to keep the club afloat.

What would a Dee4life nominee bring to the table now?

For what it?s worth, I would agree that if it?s legally binding, a Dee4life nominee should be on the board.

The replies to your questions are as follows.
1. How do you know that Dundee Football Club was within two months of running out of money in August 2013.
Prior to the beginning of the 2013-14 season I received a copy of a Dundee Football Club 5 year financial plan commencing season 2013-14.
In the 2013-14 season Dundee FC were forecast to lose ?900k but if they gained promotion at the end of the 2013-14 season they would join the riches of the Scottish Premier League making a minimum of one million pounds and up to two million pounds each year for the remainder of their 5 plan.
I do not know who produced this Dundee Football Club 5 year plan but FPS fell for it ‘hook, line and sinker’ as the figures produced in the 5 year financial plan turned out to be fantasy figures.
A Dee4life primary representative would be able speak for the Dundee FC supporters at Dundee Football Club board of directors meetings and be able to speak directly with John Nelms.
To give you a couple of examples.
If I had been the Dee4life primary representative on the Dundee Football Club Limited board of directors there would not have been four mistakes in the Dundee Football Club Limited annual accounts for the year ending 31st May 2020 which had to be restated in their annual accounts for the following year ending 31st May 2021.
If I had been present at the meeting last May which was attended by the DSA committee members to set the season ticket prices and match day ticket prices I would have stated that John Nelms’s figures which stated that the ticket prices were increasing by only 5% was wrong.
It was stated on forums that after the end of the meeting the DSA committee members realised that the ticket prices were increasing by 19% because Nelms had not quoted ‘like for like’ ticket prices to justify his 5% increase in ticket prices for the 2024-25 season.
Dee4life are entitled to a primary representative and a separate secondary representative on the Dundee Football Club Limited board of directors under rules 79-82 of the Dundee Football Club Limited Articles of Association which were agreed by FPS on 13th August 2013 when FPS purchased a majority shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited.
John Nelms also knows about rules 79-82 as he admitted so in a letter to the Dee4life board of directors on 7th December 2022 signed Dundee FC Limited but John Nelms made the mistake of quoting the American term Articles of Incorporation in his letter.