when will rafas plan start to work

[ghostrider]

And it's as simple as you have stated it but the only people who are too dense see it are a couple on here and of course Ashley.

Let's see who's dense as time goes on, because not everyone has to share the same views. Some do have different ideas and takes on what they deem right , acceptable or wrong.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Let's see who's dense as time goes on, because not everyone has to share the same views. Some do have different ideas and takes on what they deem right , acceptable or wrong.

So you are saying you would exclude Ashley's shortcomings (to be polite) from one of the major reasons as to why Rafa hasn't been able to progress and build the squad.

[ghostrider]

So you are saying you would exclude Ashley's shortcomings (to be polite) from one of the major reasons as to why Rafa hasn't been able to progress and build the squad.

Ashley's to blame for a lot of things. We've been through this.
So now it's down to Rafa.
Rafa has control and apparently this was written in his contract....fair enough up to now?


Ok so Rafa buys who he buys and yet the entire set up he's created is none of his doing when it looks bad but is his genius when it looks good.
Fair enough up to now?


Any issues as regards defeats and slides down the table should be attributed to a NET spend this season and not to be used in conjunction with the huge spend last season, because that was needs must and cannot be used against him.
Still fair enough?


The negative football for 90% of the time is due to him not having the means to play any other way despite purchasing attack minded players and pacey one's at that, while also leaving out players that he doesn't trust or try to argue their case for playing, maybe.

He's a world class manager who we should be extremely grateful to have and we should be thankful he's picking our football team at all, no matter how he sets them up.


So what is it?
Does he have control or does he only have control when things go right and control is taken away when things go wrong?
Is he so loyal that he decides to stay on despite realising he has no control even though he spend many many weeks going over his contract to ensure it omitted nothing, it appears?

He needs to shape up and man up and sort this squad out to play some decent football for more than 30 minutes a month or he should pack up and leave it to someone who will.

[usedtobeshearer]

I can't argue with any of that.
I know people will think it's a wind up but if Rafa carries this on I'm confident that many fans will simply turn.
The only thing Rafa has in his favour is the excuse that he didn't have the cash to spend. This is his get out of jail free card....but I'm not buying into it.

He bought attack minded players mostly and left out players that have potential to effect games in Mitro, etc.
Mitro might not be Aguero or the likes but he can win you games if played to his strengths.
Rafa doesn't do attacking strengths and in fact seems to clearly use attack as an after thought.


It's almost as if he played Gayle with Joselu as a sort of one fingered salute to the fans and pundits who's been calling him negative, as much as to say " tehre you go, look what attacking set ups get you."

Maybe he didn't but it frigging seems like he'd do that.

I honestly want him gone.

This from a guy that stuck up for parsnip!

[ghostrider]

This from a guy that stuck up for parsnip!

We played football then.
We play the worst football I've seen at this club for a long long time.
Even Allardyce looked gungho compared to Rafa.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Ashley's to blame for a lot of things. We've been through this.
So now it's down to Rafa.
Rafa has control and apparently this was written in his contract....fair enough up to now?


Ok so Rafa buys who he buys and yet the entire set up he's created is none of his doing when it looks bad but is his genius when it looks good.
Fair enough up to now?


Any issues as regards defeats and slides down the table should be attributed to a NET spend this season and not to be used in conjunction with the huge spend last season, because that was needs must and cannot be used against him.
Still fair enough?


The negative football for 90% of the time is due to him not having the means to play any other way despite purchasing attack minded players and pacey one's at that, while also leaving out players that he doesn't trust or try to argue their case for playing, maybe.

He's a world class manager who we should be extremely grateful to have and we should be thankful he's picking our football team at all, no matter how he sets them up.


So what is it?
Does he have control or does he only have control when things go right and control is taken away when things go wrong?
Is he so loyal that he decides to stay on despite realising he has no control even though he spend many many weeks going over his contract to ensure it omitted nothing, it appears?

He needs to shape up and man up and sort this squad out to play some decent football for more than 30 minutes a month or he should pack up and leave it to someone who will.

How can it be down to Rafa when Ashley holds the purse strings and lies about what he will allow to be spent to almost every manager we have had.

[ghostrider]

How can it be down to Rafa when Ashley holds the purse strings and lies about what he will allow to be spent to almost every manager we have had.

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

[HughieG]

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable

[ghostrider]

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

[HughieG]

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system. Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him. That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.