rafa vs Ashley

[toonlegend]

exactly what i have been saying

but again i cant see that happening until rafa commits

we could ****ft a lot before we shift those you mention

and even if we give them aawy we release wages to get loans or out of contract players in

sorry but would you committ to anything with a proven liar, without cast iron waterproof guarantees, that would cost ashley a fortune if he reneged on them... nope i wouldn';t either.

[pboromag]

that is down to rafa to negotiate
everyone i employ are on negotiated bonuses and incentives

i cant just keep giving things away with no commitment or promises of what will be achieved

would mouriniho get all the money he is getting at the moment if manure had stayed outside the top 4 this season
nope

he spends more as he does better

ash and rafa should commit to that

just saying i want 40 mill before i sign is no commitment
he should as in life everyone else is be set targets to achieve with rewards and money for transfers in return

[pboromag]

it may be another ashley thread but it isn't repetitive , its a brand new story

same as rafa can be talked about in a million different threads without it being repetitive, if each one is a different story, has a different slant.

the difference between that and YOUR POSTS RE RAFA are that you cut and paste word for word the same things over and over again... you may even type them out each time... but word for word they are the same... therefore repetitive. you really need to look up the meanings of words you are using/reading, by your reckoning... another post about NUFC would be repetitive. pfft.

if you can show me where i cut and paste i willlisten to your argument

yes like ash he does make the same mistake time and time again
which ever way you spin this story it is ash must give money for transfers

i think that has been done before hasnt it

i think we had it when we went down back me or i go
whne he brought us up
i wont commiyt until you promise me funds

and then this

is there a thread running through it

i think so

[toonlegend]

if you can show me where i cut and paste i willlisten to your argument

yes like ash he does make the same mistake time and time again
which ever way you spin this story it is ash must give money for transfers

i think that has been done before hasnt it

i think we had it when we went down back me or i go
whne he brought us up
i wont commiyt until you promise me funds

and then this

is there a thread running through it

i think so

i'm not writing the story, i'm posting a story from the media, that others may be interested in.

as i said you may even type out your grievances against rafa each time. byut they are still word for word the same .. over and over again.

[pboromag]

and so is the ash doesnt give enough money
ash was duped by sheppard
wrc wrc wrc rwc

3 threads on the go no all descended into anti ash /ash doenst gibe enought etc

and people say i repeat
and people say i repeat

[Jammy89]

and so is the ash doesnt give enough money
ash was duped by sheppard
wrc wrc wrc rwc

3 threads on the go no all descended into anti ash /ash doenst gibe enought etc

and people say i repeat
and people say i repeat

You do repeat.

It's ****ing annoying.

[ghostrider]

It isn't all about money though, it's about trophies and seeing the club move on.

What constitutes moving on though if it's not all about money?

If he signs then Ashley (as many suspect) screws him on the money front he just spends 3 years keeping heads above water, which he doesn't want to do.

Not at all. That's the beauty of an extension being massively in Rafa's favour.
Ashley's supposedly saying, sign an extended contract and there's money available...but if you don't sign, then I can't sanction anything.

So let's look at the reality of that whilst assuming it's correct for a minute.

Rafa has a choice right there and then.

1. He can go into the office and call no joy and negotiate his own release in however way it happens and leave with the backing of most fans. His integrity and everything else that's bestowed upon him is, intact.

2. He can sign an extension with the contract tuned to his basic requirements, as in available money is cash and sales...and get on with being a manager and a coach and adding and subtracting players for and from the squad.

If at the start of the season he doesn't get what his contract states, then he can walk away and expect to get a full contractual payout and still keep his so called integrity and whatever else, intact, with the same backing of most fans.

The man cannot lose in this scenario. Only Ashley and co can lose.

So, something isn't quite right as it stands if this story has any truth to it.....unless Rafa simply stays out his last year just tweaking about with the squad, knowing he's not going to bother attempting to take it forward....and if that's the case, his integrity and honesty and everything else is basically a nonsense, because it means he would be acting like a stubborn fool in order to ensure he picks up his wages.
Ok, anyone can argue that he's entitled to it. He might well be...but this is about his own integrity as we're constantly reminded of him.

Using nonsense of asking Ashley to match his ambition is a cop out. It's his way of stacking all his cards in his own corner and picking out what suits at the time to ensure he keeps ahead of the game....or to put it bluntly....to keep his own head above water without any blame attachment.

If he loves the city and adores the fans and can be the genius that's apparently turned a championship squad into a top 10 premier league team under the so called dire conditions that Ashley's supposedly placed him under...then he surely can be the same genius with a bit of fine tuning and also holding an extra 2 or 3 years to a 5 million a year contract....right?

Rafa's one lucky man in having a hate figure like Ashley as his boss. It allows him almost full freedom to conjure up anything he wants to and pass on any potential discontent to Ashley's side.

That's my tuppence worth, once again.

[ghostrider]

You do repeat.

It's ****ing annoying.

So do many others, including myself.
There's always going to be repeats or very close to it when there's arguments for and against two particular people.
How else can it be argued unless it gets placed into one thread until that thread becomes overloaded then locked and onto the next thread to carry it on, thus saving thread after thread.

I saw how this works on toontastic.
One thread for one debate, whether it's Peter Beardsley's entire existence or Rafa's or Ashley's, etc.
It's horrible.

It ends up with thousands of posts on one topic over years and anyone starting a topic up on anything similar, it's quickly disappeared and added to the relevant topic.
The major issue with that is, it loses any impetus a debate had because there's a topic full of varied debates, mixed up.


In this forum scenario it's an ongoing topic argument on whatever and the good stay up and the not so good for debate slide down and out of sight in short order.

This scenario is much better but we have a problem that most will refuse to accept.
You see, the issue here is, the masses hate having Rafa criticised but love having Ashley criticised in every way shape and form.
Very few people criticise Rafa and those people become tedious in their ways by criticising or arguing the toss.

However, the Ashley hate by mass is deemed perfectly normal and acceptable and is never too old to be repeated time and time and time again, as long as there's no argument in his favour.

If people are going to get irritated by supposed rinse and repeat scenarios then they have to also play it against their own rinse and repeat scenarios to play an even game.

What I'm basically saying in a nutshell is, people need to accept that topics will always pop up with variations of a same scenario.
It's going to happen always unless it's locked...which doesn't help the issue, it just creates another one.

It basically boils down to posters just avoiding the topic if they have no inclination to post in it...but if they choose to post in it then expect debate/argument.

[pboromag]

sorry but would you committ to anything with a proven liar, without cast iron waterproof guarantees, that would cost ashley a fortune if he reneged on them... Nope i wouldn';t either.

rafa could hav walked away when he took us down
he didnt
was he given any guarantees then ??
Why did he stay
why would he work with ash if there was no trust then

when he brought us up was he given guarantees then
he could have walked then if he wasnt happen

you say would i sign for someone who you say isa proven liar
no but i also wouldnt work with anyone i didnt trust ,unless it was cushty and i was coining it with very little better options

he ahs worked with ash for 2 and a bit seasons and he is still here
would you work for someone that long if you didnt trust thenm

especially when it is easy if he was to go to get the other team to buy your contract out
if they thought you were worth it

hes a dinosaur
he has very little options

he blew his worth when he gopt sacked from his last job and the chelsea lads thought his footy was boring

jog on i say and get someone a little bit more enthusiastic willing to work in the constraints that we all know ash implements
stop bleeting like a stuffed pig
sign or go and give the new manager time to shift out rafas sh1te players and get his own team together

we have a nucleaus of a decent side
we just need a manager commited
willing to work within the clubs structure
and there are plenty that will step into his shoes

we are a big club
and no manager is thebiggest part of it

rafa seems to think its his

[pboromag]

you do repeat.

It's ****ing annoying.

jammy there are currently 4-5 active topics
all descend into ash doesnt back rafa
i started what i consider to be a very good post that i think warrants decent discussion
two rplys in someone trashes it by saying ash wouldnt back them etc etc etc
very repetitive

discuss the topic regardsless of what ash will or wont do

dont let posters ruin every thread with the usuall its all ashlys fault
he needs to spend money
he needs to back rafa

yes he does
we all know that
but dont ruin every thread with the same negative replies
usually from the same bitter and twisted ppposters