A New Political Force?

[WBA123]

airbus have been threatening to leave the uk,for the last 10 years.honda are on a downward spiral because they failed on the up take on electric cars and have been left behind.jlr a renowned for hireing and fireing eggs in one basket the Chinese market.dyson in Singapore that’s were his biggest market is,xtrail wont be made anywhere can’t compete with the Korean made Kia models,I see you fail to mention the new trade deal between the EU and the Japanese government on the new tariffs or should that read no tariffs which will effect all the EU countries.as for Sony and panosonic moving do they actually manufacture anything in the uk.as for passports who gives two f#ucks what colour they are.

Yes, Brexit obviously has not contributed at all to this then.

Your head is well and firmly buried in the sand.

[stripes39]

Ah yes, but in the UK its going swimmingly.

Only 3500 job losses this week for Honda. Alongside 4500 for JLR. Along with Nissan pulling out of making the X-Trail. Along with Sony and Panosonic leaving their head office for Europe. Along with the EMA moving to Amsterdam. At least Dyson is fully supporting Brexit though eh... by moving to Singapore. Airbus about to move. Thousands of jobs lost, thousands more under threat.

But on the positive we get blue passports. Brilliant.

As a country, we aren’t quite the basket case you would imply and neither are several of our EU neighbors shining examples of economic excellence either. Despite several of the examples you give being entirely down to Brexit, how about a little bit of balance?

UK employment is at a record high of 32.6million. Falling unemployment, at four per cent, is the lowest since 1975. Wages up 3.4 per cent, their fastest since 2008 with inflation down to 1.8 per cent so despite all of this uncertainty over the mess aka Brexit (which there is) we are in a better place than many of our neighbors if you care to examine their respective records.

I recently spent a period at Dyson HQ on an assignment where this was a hot topic. At no point was Brexit ever considered a factor in jobs being lost at the HQ. The move to Singapore is primarily due to an increasing majority of Dyson’s customer base and the manufacturing operations that support this now being in Asia. This has been on the cards pre-Brexit. It’s all about cost of manufacture and the logistics to ship stock out from the UK. Why would you not manufacture in the region half way across the globe where you are seeing your highest growth in revenues?

Oh, and you also neglected to mention that Dyson moving forwards will still employ double the number of staff that it did 4 years ago and that they are well in to a £200 Million investment program to support the R&D and testing facility in Wiltshire. I wouldn’t say that was a company pulling out would you?

Regarding the Japanese car industry, Honda itself does not blame Brexit as a factor. They acknowledge that the plant has struggled for a long time and that the car industry is going through unprecedented times. Sales of diesel cars are not only in free-fall in the UK, where demand fell by almost 30%, but also on mainland Europe. The only plant in the EU outside of Japan where they manufacture is Swindon. They are not switching to another EU location due to Brexit. You neglected to mention that they are also closing a large plant in Turkey and I don’t believe Turkey are involved in Brexit.

The facts, though, are that Japan no longer needs to make cars in Europe because the EU trade deal it has finally signed will cut its export tariffs to zero meaning its cheaper to manufacture in Japan than in the EU - even more so now the Japanese government is offering large incentives to manufacturers to relocate manufacturing.

Nissan is a company in crisis which has just had its chairman arrested and is under investigation so lots going on there. The X-Trail is diesel powered and it has been suggested that Nissan was struggling to ensure the engines with which the new vehicle was to have been powered complied with the EU's new emissions regulations. It has also been suggested that, with diesel falling in demand, it would have been prohibitively expensive for Nissan to ship petrol engines from Japan to fuel the new line.

It simply means that the estimated 700 or so jobs that would have been created as a result of production of the X-Trail will now not be. It does not mean any of the existing 7,000 or so workers at Sunderland will lose their jobs. The company has no plans to remove production of the zero-emission Leaf, the world's best-selling electric vehicle either.

I’m not pretending that the uncertainty and dithering by useless politicians over Brexit hasn’t caused the jitters in many quarters and caused several businesses to up sticks because it has. It’s far from ideal but I just wish remainer's like yourself would retain a degree of balance. In between sneering at fellow posters for reading in to what you cite as biased reporting of facts, you might well add a bit more balance to your own arguments rather than seeking to blame everything on Brexit when it is clearly not the case.

[WBA123]

As a country, we aren’t quite the basket case you would imply and neither are several of our EU neighbors shining examples of economic excellence either. Despite several of the examples you give being entirely down to Brexit, how about a little bit of balance?

UK employment is at a record high of 32.6million. Falling unemployment, at four per cent, is the lowest since 1975. Wages up 3.4 per cent, their fastest since 2008 with inflation down to 1.8 per cent so despite all of this uncertainty over the mess aka Brexit (which there is) we are in a better place than many of our neighbors if you care to examine their respective records.

I recently spent a period at Dyson HQ on an assignment where this was a hot topic. At no point was Brexit ever considered a factor in jobs being lost at the HQ. The move to Singapore is primarily due to an increasing majority of Dyson’s customer base and the manufacturing operations that support this now being in Asia. This has been on the cards pre-Brexit. It’s all about cost of manufacture and the logistics to ship stock out from the UK. Why would you not manufacture in the region half way across the globe where you are seeing your highest growth in revenues?

Oh, and you also neglected to mention that Dyson moving forwards will still employ double the number of staff that it did 4 years ago and that they are well in to a £200 Million investment program to support the R&D and testing facility in Wiltshire. I wouldn’t say that was a company pulling out would you?

Regarding the Japanese car industry, Honda itself does not blame Brexit as a factor. They acknowledge that the plant has struggled for a long time and that the car industry is going through unprecedented times. Sales of diesel cars are not only in free-fall in the UK, where demand fell by almost 30%, but also on mainland Europe. The only plant in the EU outside of Japan where they manufacture is Swindon. They are not switching to another EU location due to Brexit. You neglected to mention that they are also closing a large plant in Turkey and I don’t believe Turkey are involved in Brexit.

The facts, though, are that Japan no longer needs to make cars in Europe because the EU trade deal it has finally signed will cut its export tariffs to zero meaning its cheaper to manufacture in Japan than in the EU - even more so now the Japanese government is offering large incentives to manufacturers to relocate manufacturing.

Nissan is a company in crisis which has just had its chairman arrested and is under investigation so lots going on there. The X-Trail is diesel powered and it has been suggested that Nissan was struggling to ensure the engines with which the new vehicle was to have been powered complied with the EU's new emissions regulations. It has also been suggested that, with diesel falling in demand, it would have been prohibitively expensive for Nissan to ship petrol engines from Japan to fuel the new line.

It simply means that the estimated 700 or so jobs that would have been created as a result of production of the X-Trail will now not be. It does not mean any of the existing 7,000 or so workers at Sunderland will lose their jobs. The company has no plans to remove production of the zero-emission Leaf, the world's best-selling electric vehicle either.

I’m not pretending that the uncertainty and dithering by useless politicians over Brexit hasn’t caused the jitters in many quarters and caused several businesses to up sticks because it has. It’s far from ideal but I just wish remainer's like yourself would retain a degree of balance. In between sneering at fellow posters for reading in to what you cite as biased reporting of facts, you might well add a bit more balance to your own arguments rather than seeking to blame everything on Brexit when it is clearly not the case.

Good post.

I'm not saying Nissan aren't building the X-trail or that Honda have pulled out purely because of Brexit. I'm saying that Brexit is a contributory factor towards that decision. Its nothing to do with balance when jobs are lost and Brexit has contributed towards that decision making process. Seems to me that Brexiteers bury their head in the sand and just seek to discredit every credible source or company.

It doesn't help when Boris Johnson says F%@k business. Many of the companies here are foreign owned, and we are putting trade barriers in place with the largest trading bloc in the world and our largest customer.

UK employment is at a record high because of the way they measure it. One hour part time jobs per week and zero hours contracts now count towards it.

Brexit has created a situation where we have no idea what will happen after March 29th. Business uncertainty and a lack of clarity from the government is causing major headaches across the country. This could be an absolute disaster and Brexit is the cause. I'm happy for reasoned debate, but have no idea why anyone would advocate a no deal Brexit. Its plain lunacy.

And I still can't work out one tangible benefit of why we are doing this.

[Leicesterbaggie]

I have nothing but respect for those who voted to leave and then accepted the will of the people. Those I have absolutely no respect for are those Remainers who claim to be democratic but only if the vote goes their way. History will judge them and not in a good light.

Look up in the dictionary the meaning of the word democracy and I quote, 'a form of government in which SUPREME power is vested in the people and exercised by them or their elected agents under a free electoral system'. MP's please note! At no point does it say that if you don't agree with the result you have another until it does.

Finally, don't spout that garbage that Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. Those are the meanderings of self indulgent, hypocritical and yes, ignorant individuals.

Sorry, I should have said ' those who voted to remain'.

[WBA123]

I have nothing but respect for those who voted to leave and then accepted the will of the people. Those I have absolutely no respect for are those Remainers who claim to be democratic but only if the vote goes their way. History will judge them and not in a good light.

Look up in the dictionary the meaning of the word democracy and I quote, 'a form of government in which SUPREME power is vested in the people and exercised by them or their elected agents under a free electoral system'. MP's please note! At no point does it say that if you don't agree with the result you have another until it does.

Finally, don't spout that garbage that Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. Those are the meanderings of self indulgent, hypocritical and yes, ignorant individuals.

You'll also then know that democracy is a process and doesn't stand still. The public now know a lot more than we did in 2016 about the effects of leaving. Real democracy is to have another vote.

And seriously, your last comment made me laugh a lot. So Brexiteers knew they were voting for this mess we're in then?

Stop blaming remainers for the mess that prominent leavers have put us in. There is no clear plan put forward by Brexiteers that make us any better off than before. International companies are cutting jobs in their droves. Food prices will go up in a no deal Brexit. Every impartial report (including the Govt's own Brexit report) shows we will be worse off.

The real ignorant people are ones who advocate leaving without a deal and trading on WTO terms. If you are one of those people, you have absolutely zero idea about international trade or UK economics. Basically you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm fed up of hearing The Sun and Mail sound bytes like 'will of the people' and 'leave means leave'. Do some proper reading and stop spouting such utter crap. WTF is a leave vote? Prominent leavers can't even agree so what chance do you reckon any of us do??

Finally, history will certainly judge everyone involved and for Johnson, Gove, Fox and Farage...it won't be pretty. Somehow, these charlatans still have jobs for which they are incompetent and platforms for which they can talk rubbish and people are still falling for it.

[albion68]

As I

You'll also then know that democracy is a process and doesn't stand still. The public now know a lot more than we did in 2016 about the effects of leaving. Real democracy is to have another vote.

And seriously, your last comment made me laugh a lot. So Brexiteers knew they were voting for this mess we're in then?

Stop blaming remainers for the mess that prominent leavers have put us in. There is no clear plan put forward by Brexiteers that make us any better off than before. International companies are cutting jobs in their droves. Food prices will go up in a no deal Brexit. Every impartial report (including the Govt's own Brexit report) shows we will be worse off.

The real ignorant people are ones who advocate leaving without a deal and trading on WTO terms. If you are one of those people, you have absolutely zero idea about international trade or UK economics. Basically you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm fed up of hearing The Sun and Mail sound bytes like 'will of the people' and 'leave means leave'. Do some proper reading and stop spouting such utter crap. WTF is a leave vote? Prominent leavers can't even agree so what chance do you reckon any of us do??

Finally, history will certainly judge everyone involved and for Johnson, Gove, Fox and Farage...it won't be pretty. Somehow, these charlatans still have jobs for which they are incompetent and platforms for which they can talk rubbish and people are still falling for it.

like I said in a earlier post remainers who do not except a democratic vote stinks of desperation,by god who really are desperate.and to say to someone your ignorant,you sound like your up your own apologies might be in order.but dought it very much.ivoted out I’m neither ignorant or thick,not the cleverest of people but I knew what I was voting for as did you.

[WBA123]

As I like I said in a earlier post remainers who do not except a democratic vote stinks of desperation,by god who really are desperate.and to say to someone your ignorant,you sound like your up your own apologies might be in order.but dought it very much.ivoted out I’m neither ignorant or thick,not the cleverest of people but I knew what I was voting for as did you.

So all 17m people voted for a no deal Brexit then....right, of course they did.

The referendum was flawed. There is no mandate in parliament for any type of Brexit plan.

We need another vote.

[Leicesterbaggie]

You'll also then know that democracy is a process and doesn't stand still. The public now know a lot more than we did in 2016 about the effects of leaving. Real democracy is to have another vote.

And seriously, your last comment made me laugh a lot. So Brexiteers knew they were voting for this mess we're in then?

Stop blaming remainers for the mess that prominent leavers have put us in. There is no clear plan put forward by Brexiteers that make us any better off than before. International companies are cutting jobs in their droves. Food prices will go up in a no deal Brexit. Every impartial report (including the Govt's own Brexit report) shows we will be worse off.

The real ignorant people are ones who advocate leaving without a deal and trading on WTO terms. If you are one of those people, you have absolutely zero idea about international trade or UK economics. Basically you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm fed up of hearing The Sun and Mail sound bytes like 'will of the people' and 'leave means leave'. Do some proper reading and stop spouting such utter crap. WTF is a leave vote? Prominent leavers can't even agree so what chance do you reckon any of us do??

Finally, history will certainly judge everyone involved and for Johnson, Gove, Fox and Farage...it won't be pretty. Somehow, these charlatans still have jobs for which they are incompetent and platforms for which they can talk rubbish and people are still falling for it.

It's a pity that you and I are on opposite sides of the political divide as we often agree on things Albion.

I would like to make a couple of observations. Firstly, I do not read the Sun, Mail or the Mirror, I want to leave with a deal and the only reason I callers Remainers ignorant is because it was them who claimed that Brexiteers were ignorant in the first place which IS self indulgent and ignorant.

If you read bordering's post, whose points are pretty well based on facts and not mights or maybes, why would anybody want to remain in an institution which is in decline? Nobody knows what the future holds, in or out. The one thing that I do know is that as a Brexiteer I consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual and along with 52% of the electorate voted to leave and no, I don't believe we are in any better position to know what to do now, in fact I believe we are more confused.

[boingy]

I have nothing but respect for those who voted to leave and then accepted the will of the people. Those I have absolutely no respect for are those Remainers who claim to be democratic but only if the vote goes their way. History will judge them and not in a good light.

Look up in the dictionary the meaning of the word democracy and I quote, 'a form of government in which SUPREME power is vested in the people and exercised by them or their elected agents under a free electoral system'. MP's please note! At no point does it say that if you don't agree with the result you have another until it does.

Finally, don't spout that garbage that Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. Those are the meanderings of self indulgent, hypocritical and yes, ignorant individuals.

I didn't need a referendum. 20 years ago it was obvious which way the EU was going and I couldn't believe we were in it....We finally had a chance to leave and all those so called politicians who didn't get on board should be sacked. A couple of days moaning after the result would be acceptable......2 years is an absolute disgrace, add to that all the media brexit hate and bias toward the money sucking EU and the likes of air space to the likes of Anna Soubre and co and the lack of respect for the vote is disgusting. We have had to sit through this for 2 years spitting at the TV screen. There has been a constant pushing to get what they want, and don't give me all that Brexit will cost us jobs etc....add up all the companies that went bust or moved abroad whilst we were IN THE EU. No one mentions that but they are quick to say that companies are now moving because of the THOUGHT of brexit. Honestly makes your blood boil!!!!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I don't understand why anyone can't see that all the major countries of the EU are in a mess both politically and economically. The tiny Greek economy nearly brought the EU to its knees. When the Italian economy goes pop the further removed from it we are the better.

There were some dredgers in the channel today. Hopefully they were digging it a bit wider.