Nobody getting out of here.

[Taintedice]

There are 3 covid-deniers on here but I was more referring to the likes of Hitchens.

Did you know, 3000 people have been killed by buses in the past 2 days in England, really shocking.

[BCram]

Taintedice, you could make points to take the discussion forward. I think Boris and Nicola are responsible for where we are. They choose what policies to adopt. If you think that their choice of policy is failing to solve the issue what is wrong with asking questions or suggesting alternative policies.
We have a 3 generation household and the oldest generation staying safe at home would be undermined if the other younger generations were going to school and running about at work.
Lockdown works for us, but for many many households it places enormous financial and social pressure on them.
I think it should be possible to discuss this issue without worrying about how we got here. We are where we are and it seems we have no road map out. That's the point that Rross and Deeranged have been making. They point out how low the number of deaths are. In Scotland it's less than 6000 out of a population of about 6m. There is now talk about herd immunity being created by the vaccine. If herd immunity is actually possible then the vaccination process will be the way lockdown will be avoided. Do you believe that herd immunity is possible.

[Taintedice]

They point out how low the number of deaths are. In Scotland it's less than 6000 out of a population of about 6m.

This is with lockdown and restrictions, what are you not getting about that? I've said before, almost 3000 deaths linked to covid occurred by the end of April 2020, then the restrictions kicked in and deaths started to level off down to zero by August. So 3000 in 2 months before lockdown had an impact, 3000 in the 9 months since. And there has been no lockdown in the UK since last July, even then, thousands of people were coming into the UK and allowed to move freely.

[Deeranged]

This is with lockdown and restrictions, what are you not getting about that? I've said before, almost 3000 deaths linked to covid occurred by the end of April 2020, then the restrictions kicked in and deaths started to level off down to zero by August. So 3000 in 2 months before lockdown had an impact, 3000 in the 9 months since. And there has been no lockdown in the UK since last July, even then, thousands of people were coming into the UK and allowed to move freely.

A respiratory virus became less prevalent over the summer months because of lock down? Or was it maybe because that's how respiratory viruses work?

[BCram]

This is with lockdown and restrictions, what are you not getting about that? I've said before, almost 3000 deaths linked to covid occurred by the end of April 2020, then the restrictions kicked in and deaths started to level off down to zero by August. So 3000 in 2 months before lockdown had an impact, 3000 in the 9 months since. And there has been no lockdown in the UK since last July, even then, thousands of people were coming into the UK and allowed to move freely.

Sorry Tainted, could you give me the monthly breakdown of covid deaths? If we can agree the Scottish figures then we can perhaps discuss the pros and cons of lockdown. I think there must be a way out of this and it will not be based on lockdowns.

[Taintedice]

Sorry Tainted, could you give me the monthly breakdown of covid deaths? If we can agree the Scottish figures then we can perhaps discuss the pros and cons of lockdown. I think there must be a way out of this and it will not be based on lockdowns.

What lockdowns? If the vaccines work as well as anticipated, Scotland should be down to a handful of deaths by spring, like last July/August. At that point, there will be no reason for the pubs and restaurants to be closed, for sports grounds to remain empty. I also imagine the UK-wide furlough scheme will end in April so no choice but to have folk back to work anyway. Will we all be allowed to pile into boozers, 5 deep at the bar, probably not. Will we be allowed to go on pub crawls around the toon, probably not. If those are things you get angry about, not much to be said.

There also needs to be some recognition of the people who are most impacted by this, people not in the same social circles as Hitchens and Brewer. People living at the thin edge are disproportionately affected by disease, always have been always will be. They deserve protection, not forced to go out and work in environments where worker protections are non-existent at the best of times.

[islaydarkblue]

What lockdowns? If the vaccines work as well as anticipated, Scotland should be down to a handful of deaths by spring, like last July/August. At that point, there will be no reason for the pubs and restaurants to be closed, for sports grounds to remain empty. I also imagine the UK-wide furlough scheme will end in April so no choice but to have folk back to work anyway. Will we all be allowed to pile into boozers, 5 deep at the bar, probably not. Will we be allowed to go on pub crawls around the toon, probably not. If those are things you get angry about, not much to be said.

There also needs to be some recognition of the people who are most impacted by this, people not in the same social circles as Hitchens and Brewer. People living at the thin edge are disproportionately affected by disease, always have been always will be. They deserve protection, not forced to go out and work in environments where worker protections are non-existent at the best of times.

You sound like Jeremy Corbyn and his left ing sidekick John McDonnell.

[eric_sinclair]

Retired doctor nailed it for me on the problem with a lockdown there, basic medical principles.
Do no harm.
"You can't harm someone by preventing something that might harm them, that's the wrong way round"
Says the govt have been selective and narrow minded in whose advice to take.
Hard to argue with any of that.

[Returnofrros]

Retired doctor nailed it for me on the problem with a lockdown there, basic medical principles.
Do no harm.
"You can't harm someone by preventing something that might harm them, that's the wrong way round"
Says the govt have been selective and narrow minded in whose advice to take.
Hard to argue with any of that.

They have been selective in the extreme, how many times can Ferguson be wrong? Still there pedalling his nonsense.

An example yesterday on the stuff they put out......new strain is 30% more deadly.

They take a very small sample age group 60 -62 year olds and say that there is a 13 in 1000 chance of dying after contracting rather than 10 in 13.

Dig a bit deeper and this is on a sample of 8% of the deaths of 60 to 62 year olds.

Now the amount of 60 -62 year who have died must be small, those who have died with no underlying almost miniscule.

Technically 30% is correct but jeezo it's fear mongering.

[BCram]

They have been selective in the extreme, how many times can Ferguson be wrong? Still there pedalling his nonsense.

An example yesterday on the stuff they put out......new strain is 30% more deadly.

They take a very small sample age group 60 -62 year olds and say that there is a 13 in 1000 chance of dying after contracting rather than 10 in 13.

Dig a bit deeper and this is on a sample of 8% of the deaths of 60 to 62 year olds.

Now the amount of 60 -62 year who have died must be small, those who have died with no underlying almost miniscule.

Technically 30% is correct but jeezo it's fear mongering.

This analysis was broadcast on Breakfast TV, BBC main news programme today. The percentage was now 40%, and it is a statistical expression. The media are determined to paint their truth as black and as dark as possible. But there was an interesting segment when they discussed the probability that this disease is now endemic which means it is in society for ever. Getting rid of it, killing it, is being discussed as a probability and vaccination needs to be worldwide to try to get it out of the population. Smallpox and polio are given as examples of successes brought about by vaccinations.
We are on the right track with the vaccines and I am waiting for my letter.
Does 1 in 100 sound a smaller stat than 10 in 1000? I think 1 in 100 feels smaller.