Matchday Thread: Rams v Exeter

[swaledale]

I’m sure it’s happened elsewhere, RS...but I honestly don’t think I can remember it happening at Derby before, although it probably should have with the ‘poison dwarf’.
In many respects it’s short-termism at its most blatant.
‘Get us up and then toddle off...that’s the brief’. Doesn’t seem like the greatest incentive to me and I can’t imagine that it will do wonders for PW’s self esteem if even those who, perfectly reasonably, want to see him given more time are also suggesting (again perfectly reasonably) that he’s only good enough for League One.

There is nothing to suggest that there are any plans to sack him If he gets promotion, and I wouldn't think that was the case. We fans might have a question as to whether he is good enough to manage in the championship, but I can't see that being the plan or the view at the club. Indeed nobody was suggesting that was the brief!!
If he gets promotion, I am certain he will continue as manager and hopefully have the resources required to improve the team to be able to stay in the championship.

It is often the case (see what happened at The Owls) that a manager that gains promotion fails to stay the course in the higher league, for me that's often seem to have been unfair, because the club hasn't been willing or able to bring in the required quality of player to be able to compete in the higher division.

Of course the same often applies to players, many of those that get a club promoted, have to be replaced otherwise relegation looms, such is football and it doesn't seem to blunt thier self esteem or ambition.

[ramAnag]

Personally I reckon a manager that's equipped for league one will likely do well in the championship, its that step to the PL that they struggle with. Colin is a great example.

Annoyingly, ‘Colin’ seemed to be able to manage at any level. Possibly getting a bit long in the tooth now but he’s a comparative youngster alongside Roy Hodgson who’s still doing the business in the PL at 76.

[SithHappens]

Annoyingly, ‘Colin’ seemed to be able to manage at any level. Possibly getting a bit long in the tooth now but he’s a comparative youngster alongside Roy Hodgson who’s still doing the business in the PL at 76.

He's never proven himself at PL level really, although we know it was hindered by the PL failing to punish West Ham for clear out and out cheating.

[ramAnag]

He's never proven himself at PL level really, although we know it was hindered by the PL failing to punish West Ham for clear out and out cheating.

Did okay at Cardiff if I remember correctly, but you’re probably right...one of those that gets unfashionable clubs up (Sheffield United) and then struggles a bit. Might have been interesting to see how he’d have done with bigger backing.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Warne has a track record of getting Rotherham up and back down again, but that may be as much to do with a lack of resources to strengthen the team for a more difficult league as it is to do with his managerial prowess.

Promotion is always a double edged sword for managers and players alike, particularly in the case of promotion from championship to premiership, where the step up is often beyond the skill sets of those winning that step up. Plus the club's have shed loads of dosh to bring a whole new squad (see Forest 18 months ago). Win and you often sign your own death warrant

[swaledale]

Warne has a track record of getting Rotherham up and back down again, but that may be as much to do with a lack of resources to strengthen the team for a more difficult league as it is to do with his managerial prowess.

Promotion is always a double edged sword for managers and players alike, particularly in the case of promotion from championship to premiership, where the step up is often beyond the skill sets of those winning that step up. Plus the club's have shed loads of dosh to bring a whole new squad (see Forest 18 months ago). Win and you often sign your own death warrant

Death warrant? Bit melodramatic GP! I hadn't heard they'd started culling unwanted managers and players! Reached the pinnacle of ones career, though I'm sure that to an extent, the compo for the manager must soften the blow a little, though maybe not ones self esteem.

[MadAmster]

‘However, we only need him to get us out of this league, on a low budget, so hopefully he can do it over the next 18 months’.

Always seemed a strange rationale to me. A little like saying, ‘he’ll get us up...and then we’ll sack him’...isn’t it?

Nothing against PW but, he has a reputation for getting clubs (well Rotherham) promoted.
Unfortunately he has no reputation for keeping them up which is one of the reasons his managerial win % - he lost more games than he won at Rotherham - is so average. Isn’t it the case that the only time Rotherham have managed to retain their Championship status has been after PW left and hasn’t that always been a bit of a ‘fly in the ointment’?

The bit in bold is factually correct, however, contextually it's not 100% correct. He left them in 8th with 13 points from 8 games and just the one defeat. They ended up with 50 from 46 and 19th, just 6 points clear of relegation last season. This time round they are currently 22nd and 5 points away from the safety of 21st. Them not staying up is looking more like a "Rotherham" thing rather than a PW one. Not enough money to get the right players in?

[Andy_Faber]

1442

Don’t awaken the Kraken MA

[swaledale]

Don’t awaken the Kraken MA

Your being a little unfair and derogatory to rA there!

[ramAnag]

The bit in bold is factually correct, however, contextually it's not 100% correct. He left them in 8th with 13 points from 8 games and just the one defeat. They ended up with 50 from 46 and 19th, just 6 points clear of relegation last season. This time round they are currently 22nd and 5 points away from the safety of 21st. Them not staying up is looking more like a "Rotherham" thing rather than a PW one. Not enough money to get the right players in?

Glad we agree that I was being ‘factually correct’.

‘Contextually’...a couple of points.
1. I was speaking in the context of the eminently sensible RS intimating that PW’s objective is to get us up on a limited budget and then we’ll take it from there, and wondering about the impact of such an increasingly common sentiment on both the manager and his staff if that is the case.

2. PW was hired because of his alleged expertise in winning promotion using limited resources and yet we’re constantly told that he hasn’t achieved because of his limited resources. The two don’t really go together and I imagine a fair few L1 managers would welcome the resources PW has at his disposal.

Your comments about the relative performances of PW and his successor may well be well founded and fair however at the time PW left Rotherham in 8th, Derby had just removed Rosenior who - in the immediate aftermath of probably DCFC’s biggest ever crisis - had us, miraculously given the circumstances, in 7th.
Little point in going over the Rosenior/Warne argument again, what’s done is done (over 13 months ago), but ‘contextually’ it doesn’t really appear to make much sense and, if anything, hindsight only appears to make things more puzzling.