LW says people should respect Dan Crowley's faith

[MarcusCole]

All fair enough and grown adults like Dan Crowley should be free to believe and say what they like about their religion.

The problem is that most people consider themselves religious only because they’ve been indoctrinated by parents and then schools from a very early age. My kids went to a fairly steady CoE school and they were bombarded with God from day 1.

That’s why religious types are so keen on faith schools, kids need to be turned from a young age, once they’re adults they’re usually lost.

Evidence based education should be the norm rather than the exception.

Two things spring to mind:
1. Your kids went to a religious school and you don't like the fact they were treated as if they were religious.
2. My kids going to school at the moment are being pushed all sort of Race based and LGBT idiology. None of that is evidenced based but I think you would be a big supporter of that

[jackal2]

All fair enough and grown adults like Dan Crowley should be free to believe and say what they like about their religion.

The problem is that most people consider themselves religious only because they’ve been indoctrinated by parents and then schools from a very early age. My kids went to a fairly steady CoE school and they were bombarded with God from day 1.

That’s why religious types are so keen on faith schools, kids need to be turned from a young age, once they’re adults they’re usually lost.

Evidence based education should be the norm rather than the exception.

2. My kids going to school at the moment are being pushed all sort of Race based and LGBT ideology. None of that is evidenced based but I think you would be a big supporter of that

I find myself agreeing with both of these sentiments.

I think schools should concentrate on the fundamentals: teaching children to read, write and do maths as quickly and as well as they possibly can. (I'm not ignoring science, but you need to have developed the other skills first in order to do yourself justice in science-based subjects).

Once a child is able to read and write to a good standard, they can read a range of texts and opinions for themselves, study a range of evidence and data for themselves, decide what their interpretation of all this information is, and express it eloquently in conversation or in writing.

Too many schools now are teaching kids what they should think and how they should interpret the world, rather than simply concentrating on giving them the skills to think for themselves. Regardless of whether they're being told what to think about religion, race, s.exuality, climate change or any subject you choose to mention, it's not right, and it's not accidental.

[magpie_mania]

Too many schools now are teaching kids what they should think and how they should interpret the world, rather than simply concentrating on giving them the skills to think for themselves. Regardless of whether they're being told what to think about religion, race, s.exuality, climate change or any subject you choose to mention, it's not right, and it's not accidental.

Genuine question - where do you get this from?

[applepie2]

Two things spring to mind:
1. Your kids went to a religious school and you don't like the fact they were treated as if they were religious.
2. My kids going to school at the moment are being pushed all sort of Race based and LGBT idiology. None of that is evidenced based but I think you would be a big supporter of that

I don’t know much about “Race based” ideology being pushed at schools; maybe more in the US than the UK? But Transgender stuff based on Queer Theory definitely concerns me. I have looked into this a lot, and I have a lot of sympathy with anyone who has gender dysphoria or struggles with the reality of their body and wishes it was different, but I have not yet seen anything from the transgender movement or activists that is coherent and accepts biological reality. It all seems to be based on *** stereotypes and encourages people, particularly adolescents, to see hormone treatments and double mastectomies etc as the solution to their troubles. It’s also authoritarian and tells us all what we’re not allowed to say or even question. It’s got too much in common with cults for my liking.

As for Dan Crowley, he’s not trying to fill the whole interview with an evangelistic sermon. As long as he continues to keep it short and sweet, I’m fine with him expressing what’s very important to him.

[ancientpie]

I find myself agreeing with both of these sentiments.

I think schools should concentrate on the fundamentals: teaching children to read, write and do maths as quickly and as well as they possibly can. (I'm not ignoring science, but you need to have developed the other skills first in order to do yourself justice in science-based subjects).

Once a child is able to read and write to a good standard, they can read a range of texts and opinions for themselves, study a range of evidence and data for themselves, decide what their interpretation of all this information is, and express it eloquently in conversation or in writing.

Too many schools now are teaching kids what they should think and how they should interpret the world, rather than simply concentrating on giving them the skills to think for themselves. Regardless of whether they're being told what to think about religion, race, s.exuality, climate change or any subject you choose to mention, it's not right, and it's not accidental.

Couldn't agree more, it scares me that I can still recite the Lords Prayer even after all these years, in many countries they would see this as brainwashing.

[BigFatPie]

Two things spring to mind:
1. Your kids went to a religious school and you don't like the fact they were treated as if they were religious.
2. My kids going to school at the moment are being pushed all sort of Race based and LGBT idiology. None of that is evidenced based but I think you would be a big supporter of that

1. We live in the middle of Lincolnshire. How many non CofE schools do you think there are round here? Or most places for that matter?

2. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Examples?

[jackal2]

Genuine question - where do you get this from?

Genuine answer - it depends what you mean.

In the general sense, there's plenty of opinion/research/debate to be found on the internet about indoctrination in schools.

However, if you mean anecdotally, I've seen direct evidence from the homework of the kids of two friends of mine, one of whom actually showed the material to me to make a point, precisely because they were furious about its content, and I could see why.

Without breaking confidences, one of the documents sent home from the school in question was basically giving the child examples of whom they should consider to be 'significant historical figures' and 'key modern opinion formers', and there was a very obviously one-sided political agenda in the selection being offered. It matters not a jot which political (or religious) agenda is being driven into the child's consciousness or subconsciousness. The point is that it shouldn't be happening at all.

Give the child the skills to read, write and do maths and they will then be equipped to absorb and process information for themselves, and decide for themselves which views/people/events are - in their opinion - significant in understanding the world and deciding the future.

I actually agree with BFP's point about religious indoctrination in schools. There's no need or justification for it, whatever the religion. I don't like the concept of 'religious/faith' schools at all. The same principle applies - give the child the fundamental skills and let them decide for themselves which (if any) religion is for them, ideally later in their educational development when they're starting to develop the maturity to make informed choices.

[Newish Pie]

All fair enough and grown adults like Dan Crowley should be free to believe and say what they like about their religion.

The problem is that most people consider themselves religious only because they’ve been indoctrinated by parents and then schools from a very early age. My kids went to a fairly steady CoE school and they were bombarded with God from day 1.

That’s why religious types are so keen on faith schools, kids need to be turned from a young age, once they’re adults they’re usually lost.

Evidence based education should be the norm rather than the exception.

I'm not so sure about the educational brainwashing thing. This thread of full of people who say they were brought up with religious faith and aren't religious any more. But it's more of an issue if it's school, family, friends, and the wider community. There's a nice line in Kevin Smith's 'Dogma' about not needing much to fill up your cup of faith when you're young, but as you get older it takes more and more to fill it up until it's not enough for you to believe any more.

Absolutely agree about teaching critical thinking skills, though.

Think it's also a bit harder to claim you were serious about religion when your kids have worked out that Santa, the Tooth Fairy etc aren't real.

[Newish Pie]

I would describe myself as an atheist who hopes he's wrong ( especially on the life after death question) I was actually fairly religious until I was 10 & lost my 14 year old brother to the Trent, I questioned the existence of a glorious being looking over us then & have seen nothing to change my opinion since, however in a way I envy those with true faith because I understand & have seen how it can help some in some very dark times.

That's an awful thing for anyone to go through... I'm guessing from your username and the ages you mention that this was a long time ago, but that's nightmarish. Can't even begin to imagine... that sounds like the kind of thing that never leaves you, no matter how much time passes. Hope you and your family have been able to find some peace and solace, whether from religion or otherwise.

[ncfcog]

That's an awful thing for anyone to go through... I'm guessing from your username and the ages you mention that this was a long time ago, but that's nightmarish. Can't even begin to imagine... that sounds like the kind of thing that never leaves you, no matter how much time passes. Hope you and your family have been able to find some peace and solace, whether from religion or otherwise.

I second that, terrible thing to happen and share your sentiments towards AP.