Was wondering about batteries

[islaydarkblue]

Interesting points Islay. I think there is a flaw in the suggestion that central government should fund social tariffs. That means tax payers foot the bill and there does not seem to me to be a way to make the system seem fair. Means testing is anathema to every politician so I am not sure how it would work.
It seems to me that the problem is that profits made in power generating companies are used to value these companies. There is no reference made to the assets they own and the requirement to generate surpluses to replace them as they wear out.
I'd not allow them to pay dividends, and make sure that intercompany loans were very strictly controlled so that making huge interest payments to a holding company in a tax haven would generate a British tax burden as if the recipient company was in Britain.
Pre privatisation Governments struggled to justify making surpluses to pay for the renewal of plant and equipment. Privatisation and a regime of regulation has not worked imo, and we are now getting into the ridiculous situation where we could generate enough energy from a mixture of home based nuclear, home based fossil fuels and home based renewable, but are unable to because of huge revenues being sent abroad. Buying energy from other countries is not the road to economic health. Ask the Germsns!

You need to remember that the companies who have the social tariffs and customers who are not paying their electricity bills on time are electricity billing companies not the electricity generating companies.

[BCram]

You need to remember that the companies who have the social tariffs and customers who are not paying their electricity bills on time are electricity billing companies not the electricity generating companies.

Right. Even more reason to review the system. The generating companies will be insulated from the hardships being felt by us as consumers. Should not be allowed to pay dividends imo.

[The AuldYin]

The problem with energy isn't that's it's too expensive now it's that it was far too cheap for far too long. Insulation is what the money should be getting invested in, not paying brew monkeys gas & leccy.

[BCram]

The problem with energy isn't that's it's too expensive now it's that it was far too cheap for far too long. Insulation is what the money should be getting invested in, not paying brew monkeys gas & leccy.

Agree. The sums raised by the privatisations bore no relationship to all the infrastructure and assets that were deployed in them. It is now that they are having to replace the system that the full costs are being exposed. Still think if you didn't have dividends or financial engineered "loans" we could have lower prices.

Is it not the case that most insulation materials have a fossil fuels as a major component in they manufacture?

[islaydarkblue]

The problem with energy isn't that's it's too expensive now it's that it was far too cheap for far too long. Insulation is what the money should be getting invested in, not paying brew monkeys gas & leccy.

About 15 years ago there was a project on Islay where every house on the island was checked to see if its insulation met the laid down standard at that time.
From memory houses which did not have the required insulation had it installed.
If it can be done on a Scottish island then every house throughout the U.K. should have is insulation checked to see if it meets the laid down standard and forget about wasting money installing smart meters.
Smart meters will not reduce energy bills in houses which have poor insulation.

[The AuldYin]

The problem with these projects is they are very often very short and underfunded, upgrading buildings to have the proper insulation when it's offered South of the border as well doesn't win you votes, free prescriptions does. The project which Isla posted a link to about people refusing hydrogen boilers is going ahead in lower Methil Fife. The reason the uptake in Scotland but not England? They simply didn't ask them.
My daughter works for the Westminster government and as you can imagine co-operation is almost zero and projects often very disjointed, if Westminster says ****e then the SNP/Greens just say sugar. I'm going to speak to her today about the battery and windfarm conundrum.

[The AuldYin]

Within the Hydro Electric energy production there are pump storage systems already in place where cheaper overnight electricity is used to pump water up to a reservoir for the production of power at times when it is required. I don't know how many such systems are in place. Cruachan is certainly one, others may exist. Surely, theoretically, power from wind turbines could be used for the pumping up of the water. Building new dams would take time and money but maybe the addition of pumps to restock water reservoirs at existing dams is a possibility in effect duplicating the Cruachan system.

On the other hand I could be havering rubbish!!

No you're right, these are called mechanical batteries, pump the water up as the turbines generate excess energy in high winds let it run back down the hill when more energy is needed. Another way of doing it is simply lifting heavy weights up in the air as excess energy is produced and lower them back down as you need the energy.
I was told today everything is down to cost, is it cost effective to make hundreds of Hydro electric dams and the wind farms needed to power them? Who knows.
People get paid to answer these questions when really they should have simply came on here for the answers. The real problem is there are far too many flat earthers out there.
As for the wind turbines the answer is the same, cost, they can very easily make wind turbines to withstand any amount of wind but they would cost a lot more it's easier to make them cheaper and turn them off and on as we need them, especially as we can't use the energy produced at certain times, it's nothing to do with bits shearing off in the wind.

[BCram]

No you're right, these are called mechanical batteries, pump the water up as the turbines generate excess energy in high winds let it run back down the hill when more energy is needed. Another way of doing it is simply lifting heavy weights up in the air as excess energy is produced and lower them back down as you need the energy.
I was told today everything is down to cost, is it cost effective to make hundreds of Hydro electric dams and the wind farms needed to power them? Who knows.
People get paid to answer these questions when really they should have simply came on here for the answers. The real problem is there are far too many flat earthers out there.
As for the wind turbines the answer is the same, cost, they can very easily make wind turbines to withstand any amount of wind but they would cost a lot more it's easier to make them cheaper and turn them off and on as we need them, especially as we can't use the energy produced at certain times, it's nothing to do with bits shearing off in the wind.

Thanks AuldYin. I think it's the questions that are being asked that is worrying. For example, Is it possible to use batteries to store excess electricity generated by wind farms? I think of batteries as being the type that discharge when being used and can be recharged by electricity being generated by the turbine but not needed by the National Grid. If this is an impossible system surely there is scientific evidence to show that the metals needed to make these batteries are available at an economic cost.
There should be masses of evidence about Cruachan. How much does it cost to produce electricity? What costs are included in the calculations?
I am horrified by the reports that Sunak is going to force the adoption of heat pumps as the major source of heat for homes. How on earth can this be a policy?

[Deeranged]

I am horrified by the reports that Sunak is going to force the adoption of heat pumps as the major source of heat for homes. How on earth can this be a policy?

The policy of a government that wants to lose an upcoming election?

[BCram]

The policy of a government that wants to lose an upcoming election?

Absolutely. There is no sense in this policy. Might create a problem for SNP/Greens though. Imagine them agreeing with Sunak? The world has gone mad.