Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

Naive or not, that mechanism exists to relieve Starmer of his role should it be considered hes doing such a bad job we should be considering an election due to the inadequacy of his 1st year in the role. Do I think its likely to happen? Of course not.

How do we get to be discussing if an election should happen off the back of a defection simply because it was pointed out that both Farage and Anderson have both stated that defecting MPs should call a by-election, to turn it round on Starmer and labour is whataboutery of the highest order.

That Starmer is doing such a bad job he should call an election is not fact, its opinion, that a defecting MP should call a by-election is not fact its just opinion, that Farage and Anderson have both gone on record stating they should IS fact.

Have you found my post on Kirk's statements Sith? if not I can repost, though to be honest you can find him saying those things online given AF's concern over the context. Just google Charlie Kirk videos.

[ramAnag]

You mean like the Cambridge student did with Kirk? CK didn't handle that well, at all.

Not sure I know enough about that to comment, MA.

I just wish people would be more honest and objective. It happens on here too. Without being personal, GP’s comment about Rainbow and Palestinian flags being the only ones that are acceptable these days was just nonsense.
Likewise on Sunday, AF, when talking about criticism of the forum, accused me of ‘making more fuss about it than everyone else combined’ (#4143) and yet we have a thread dedicated to ‘Problems with the Ram Inn’ and I am responsible for just 17 out of 154 replies and two of them were thanking him when things improved a few weeks ago.

So facts gentlemen please, rather than - for those who are old enough - the Alf Garnett school of chunnering nonsense in the belief that somehow if you say it often enough it becomes true. It doesn’t.

As RS wisely said, we need to be nicer to each other…but we also need to be truthful.

[macstheman]

'Nicer to each other, truthful'!!
I'm sorry rA but I don't know whether to laugh or cry!
This is the ducking human ducking race, after hundreds of years of ducking civilisation we're not only a hateful, vile (and it's twin evil), despicable, selfish, nasty, warmongering, inconsiderate, wealth dominated, small minded....... oh I could go on and ducking on but what's the point!
THE HUMAN DUCKING RACE IS ****E and before we've finished the legacy we'll leave is one big rubbish dump and the world's leaders will do duck all about it!
Thankfully I won't be here to see it!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Two excellent posts directly above imo. It?s always interesting how the picture changes when we swap Right wing rhetoric for facts.

and so the close knit karass closes down still further! What I believe are facts, what you believe are rhetoric. We are a;; entitled to opinion and views but please dont be so condescending as to believe that you know all the facts and others just know BS. That degree of narrow mindedness will bite you in the arse one day, if it hasnt already

[Andy_Faber]

we also need to be truthful.

...which is fine, but when (14/9) I fact checked and offered independant correction of what I believe was an innocently posted falsehood from MA, you were right across it, pushing back with 'MA may or not be correct...I don't know either (and neither) do you'. Yes I did, based on then-current (and still current) knowledge. That's you in denial (I can't think of a better word) about a thoroughly fact-checked (using independant sources), politely put and referenced correction, my assumption I'm afraid being because the original fitted your 'leaning'. Note that MA appeared to take it in good part. You appear to react the same with most facts and anecdotes that don't support your view.

Not sure how I can say the above 'nicely' but I hope its fairly polite

[ramAnag]

and so the close knit karass closes down still further! What I believe are facts, what you believe are rhetoric. We are a;; entitled to opinion and views but please dont be so condescending as to believe that you know all the facts and others just know BS. That degree of narrow mindedness will bite you in the arse one day, if it hasnt already

There is no ‘close knit karass’, GP, not on here anyway and it’s not ‘narrow minded’ to challenge your statement.
Just think about it. Q. Was it true to suggest that the only flags that can be flown with impunity these days are the Rainbow and Palestinian ones? A. No, it really wasn’t, as Saturday certainly proved and as any Premiership football crowd will also do. That’s not my opinion it’s verifiable fact. I really don’t want to fall out over it, and I won’t. Neither do I (ever) think I know all the facts, but in this instance you were just agitating and your claim is false.

[ramAnag]

...which is fine, but when (14/9) I fact checked and offered independant correction of what I believe was an innocently posted falsehood from MA, you were right across it, pushing back with 'MA may or not be correct...I don't know either (and neither) do you'. Yes I did, based on then-current (and still current) knowledge. That's you in denial (I can't think of a better word) about a thoroughly fact-checked (using independant sources), politely put and referenced correction, my assumption I'm afraid being because the original fitted your 'leaning'. Note that MA appeared to take it in good part. You appear to react the same with most facts and anecdotes that don't support your view.

Not sure how I can say the above 'nicely' but I hope its fairly polite

As regards MA’s alleged falsehood I’m not sure the truth is out yet, AF and I have no ‘leaning’ as you put it.
I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before his death and I now doubt we’d have agreed on much, but I don’t agree with murdering people one disagrees with either.

My point was that you very quickly put MA down in an over critical way. He took it well, that’s to his credit and entirely up to him.

My other point, which you’ve steered well clear of, was - and no one needs AI to check it - that your criticism of my attitude to the forum was completely wrong and factually incorrect. Debate has no value if it’s based on falsehood and I think it’s part of our current malaise that the facts, as I’ve just suggested to GP, are no longer always respected as they need to be.

[Geoff Parkstone]

There is no ‘close knit karass’, GP, not on here anyway and it’s not ‘narrow minded’ to challenge your statement.
Just think about it. Q. Was it true to suggest that the only flags that can be flown with impunity these days are the Rainbow and Palestinian ones? A. No, it really wasn’t, as Saturday certainly proved and as any Premiership football crowd will also do. That’s not my opinion it’s verifiable fact. I really don’t want to fall out over it, and I won’t. Neither do I (ever) think I know all the facts, but in this instance you were just agitating and your claim is false.

my observation related to your (somewhat sycophantic) post 4178 as captioned by the "reply to with quote" feature, rather than any issue with a flag. I find it always helps to read a comment in context. Perhaps English is not taught that way any longer?

[Geoff Parkstone]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;40751610]As regards MA?s alleged falsehood I?m not sure the truth is out yet, AF and I have no ?leaning? as you put it.
I?d never heard of Charlie Kirk before his death and I now doubt we?d have agreed on much, but I don?t agree with murdering people one disagrees with either.

My point was that you very quickly put MA down in an over critical way. He took it well, that?s to his credit and entirely up to him.

My other point, which you?ve steered well clear of, was - and no one needs AI to check it - that your criticism of my attitude to the forum was completely wrong and factually incorrect. Debate has no value if it?s based on falsehood and I think it?s part of our current malaise that the facts, as I?ve just suggested to GP, are no longer always respected as they need to be.[/QUOTE]


I agree with the highlighted comment, its just that its blatantly obvious that you swallow up all and any "facts" as godpel when they agree with your own narrative and instantly pooh-pooh any "facts" that dont support your own belief. In that sense you dont need to see "facts" as youve already made up your mind well in advance of them.

Im sure I am guilty of this to some degree, as are we all but in your case it absolutely clouds any judgement and frustrates others to a point of madness. Now this may be a deliberate ploy, who knows - but your narrow mindedness makes it hard to take anything you say seriously. Its hugely counter productive. You've been indoctrinated to such an extent that you make the "accursed right wing press" look reasonable in comparison.

[SithHappens]

Have you found my post on Kirk's statements Sith? if not I can repost, though to be honest you can find him saying those things online given AF's concern over the context. Just google Charlie Kirk videos.

I've not really looked to be honest. I think I know I'll find a lot I disagree with strongly.