O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Ram59]

I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment.
As I say...it’s common sense.
We all accept that those in the NHS who work with Covid patients and those who work in care homes are in the front line and should be entitled to priority vaccinations.
Next in line are those who spend all day in a room with those who are identified as ‘super spreaders’ - often without knowing - and those who come into contact with huge numbers of the public.
Why wait till there’s a crisis in schools and supermarkets? Be proactive for once and get ahead of the game.

It's not just this government that have this list of priorities, though, RA? MA, had just intimated that the Dutch have a similar list of priorities and I would imagine most countries will follow suit.

Whilst I'm admitting that Johnson has his failings, would you agree that Starmer has failed in his overall supervision of the Welsh government and in allowing his labour mayor of London to pressurise the weak Johnson into keeping London in tier 2, when it was obvious that they should have been in tier 3?

[Andy_Faber]

One thing that IMO knocks any of the suggested 'exposed professions' (yes teachers but there have been others, cabbies, bus drivers, barristas, HR managers blah blah) but there's one 'profession' which trumps them all, and should therefore, if and when the next priorities become public knowledge, be at the top, where the exposure to the superspreaders (kids) is sustained, and where those professionals can't in all reason be expected to wear PPE

Parents

[ramAnag]

One thing that IMO knocks any of the suggested 'exposed professions' (yes teachers but there have been others, cabbies, bus drivers, barristas, HR managers blah blah) but there's one 'profession' which trumps them all, and should therefore, if and when the next priorities become public knowledge, be at the top, where the exposure to the superspreaders (kids) is sustained, and where those professionals can't in all reason be expected to wear PPE

Parents

To which the response has to be...so should all the schools have been open? Not in areas with worryingly high figures imo.

I don’t know the numbers GP. You may have a lifelong numbers fetish but they aren’t the answer to everything and in any case the numbers the Government come up with are seriously questionable as we can all see from the much more tangible question of the number of lorries queuing in the vicinity of Dover. Last night’s figure from the PM bares no resemblance to the four digit figures quoted by the BBC and Sky today.

We have recognised the need to prioritise the NHS workers, we have recognised the need to close theatres, cinemas, pubs, restaurants and sports stadia. How devoid of imagination do you have to be not to recognise that crowded classrooms and supermarkets fit the same criteria?

[Andy_Faber]

To which the response has to be...so should all the schools have been open? Not in areas with worryingly high figures imo.

I don’t know the numbers GP. You may have a lifelong numbers fetish but they aren’t the answer to everything and in any case the numbers the Government come up with are seriously questionable as we can all see from the much more tangible question of the number of lorries queuing in the vicinity of Dover. Last night’s figure from the PM bares no resemblance to the four digit figures quoted by the BBC and Sky today.

We have recognised the need to prioritise the NHS workers, we have recognised the need to close theatres, cinemas, pubs, restaurants and sports stadia. How devoid of imagination do you have to be not to recognise that crowded classrooms and supermarkets fit the same criteria?

I actually think the response should be 'hmm yes you have a point'. I don't actually have an opinion on schools (break out the marching bands, declare a days holiday chaps!) I don't know enough about the dynamics. Swale will probably accuse me of subtle racism for that admission but hey ho

[Geoff Parkstone]

I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment.
As I say...it’s common sense.
We all accept that those in the NHS who work with Covid patients and those who work in care homes are in the front line and should be entitled to priority vaccinations.
Next in line are those who spend all day in a room with those who are identified as ‘super spreaders’ - often without knowing - and those who come into contact with huge numbers of the public.
Why wait till there’s a crisis in schools and supermarkets? Be proactive for once and get ahead of the game.

I repeat, if there is any evidence that people in those key areas are dying of covid in above average numbers, then I'm totally with you. But I've seen none. Again I ask that you show evidence beyond your "gut feeling" and "common sense" then I have no argument.

I'm a numbers person, show us the numbers to support your argument.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment"

But that is exactly what you are doing. You cannot move people up a priority chain without moving others down it. That's "competition". In a real world with a finite supply and infinite demand for a product for every winner there is a loser.

At the moment you want to prioritise the elderly, the infirm, those in care, those with existing medical conditions, those working in the NHS and in the care sectors, those key workers you've identified - teachers, retail, transport, binmen etc, those alleged super spreaders aged, what, 12 to 23?

So who is left unprioritised? Sid and Doris Bonkers of Neasden (and accountants)

And when you now have a priority pool of 99% of the population, how do you prioritise within that group? Alphabetical order maybe? I don't know but it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it and eat it again.

[ramAnag]

"I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment"

But that is exactly what you are doing. You cannot move people up a priority chain without moving others down it. That's "competition". In a real world with a finite supply and infinite demand for a product for every winner there is a loser.

At the moment you want to prioritise the elderly, the infirm, those in care, those with existing medical conditions, those working in the NHS and in the care sectors, those key workers you've identified - teachers, retail, transport, binmen etc, those alleged super spreaders aged, what, 12 to 23?

So who is left unprioritised? Sid and Doris Bonkers of Neasden (and accountants)

And when you now have a priority pool of 99% of the population, how do you prioritise within that group? Alphabetical order maybe? I don't know but it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it and eat it again.

As regards the youthful ‘super spreaders’ I long since accepted Ram59’s argument that as long as we don’t know if stopping them catching it also stops them spreading it then to prioritise the young would be futile.

Is there a ‘finite supply’? I thought we had enough for everyone and that time provided the greatest constraint. Couldn’t this be where the army is put to use. As I’ve said before teachers and supermarket staff will all be on one one site at the same time. Surely we can come up with some sort of mobile vaccination task force rather than just indulge in more hand wringing.

On a much needed positive note. The close family member who tested positive is much improved. Diagnosed on Friday, felt like sh*t on Saturday and Sunday, signs of improvement yesterday and further improvement today. Encouraging? Seriously hope so, although I have to add she is in her mid thirties.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Great news, and she wont need a vaccination now, so back to work in January with a spring in the step.

The finite supply element of my comment actually referenced the timing factor of delivery (now the Europeans are snaffling our vaccine! ) as well as possible supply chain issues under a post Brexit no deal, all of which will create potential shortages in supply

[ramAnag]

Great news, and she wont need a vaccination now, so back to work in January with a spring in the step.

The finite supply element of my comment actually referenced the timing factor of delivery (now the Europeans are snaffling our vaccine! ) as well as possible supply chain issues under a post Brexit no deal, all of which will create potential shortages in supply

Indeed. Tbh I’ve had much longer ‘colds’. If only we knew which ‘version’ we’d get.
It’s Christmas and there’s enough problems in the World without falling out on here, so let’s just agree to differ...slightly.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Life would be boring if everyone agreed