O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[andy6025]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.

Lol, you’re a card.

But as they say: every cloud has a silver lining. Next time I get my LMT voting slip in the mail I’ll defo pencil you in for the board.

[i961pie]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.

You and every fair minded decent person thinks the same.

[maddogslater]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

[jackal2]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

I think it's perfectly possible to condemn Putin's attack on the Ukraine but at the same time acknowledge that the West did play a major part in provoking it. Disproportionate aggression ultimately comes from a place of fear, and in Russia's case it was the (broadly justified) impression that they were becoming ever more surrounded by NATO. Many elements of the Western media try to portray the battle as a very simple 'good guys' versus 'bad guys' scenario, but it certainly isn't that simple.

[andy6025]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

Good article, Maddogslater. I’m not sure if you’ve seen it but John Pilger recently tweeted this out about the western media’s coverage of the war:

“Watching the BBC's loaded reports from Moscow, reading the rest of the cartoon journalism on Ukraine, it ought now to be clear to the dimmest that, whatever your views, there is no real news on the war, no trusted mainstream source, none, merely a censorship by omission. Beware.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnpilge...68451058991104

I think the media’s reporting of the Nordstream pipelines sabotage is good example of this. Everybody knows whodunnit, but... welcome to 1984.

[drillerpie]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

Well you know what you're going to get with John Pilger. West bad (fair enough, there's a lot to dislike, especially the further back in history you go), anyone anti-West good (Putin the fair minded anti-fascist ha ha).

Not sure I'd be able to get an article published in a national newspaper based on a quote from a deleted Facebook page, but he managed it so well done him.

[maddogslater]

Well you know what you're going to get with John Pilger. West bad (fair enough, there's a lot to dislike, especially the further back in history you go), anyone anti-West good (Putin the fair minded anti-fascist ha ha).

It's not just the John pilger article though, new York Times, Washington Post articles from around the same time saying the same basically how corrupt and full of neo nazis at high levels of power is the Ukraine.
Don't know if you read the pilger article on why the UK really voted for brexit a few years ago, he writes the truth however unpalatable it is.

[drillerpie]

I think it's perfectly possible to condemn Putin's attack on the Ukraine but at the same time acknowledge that the West did play a major part in provoking it. Disproportionate aggression ultimately comes from a place of fear, and in Russia's case it was the (broadly justified) impression that they were becoming ever more surrounded by NATO. Many elements of the Western media try to portray the battle as a very simple 'good guys' versus 'bad guys' scenario, but it certainly isn't that simple.

I think Russia, far from being provoked, has been treated with kid gloves for a long time. The idea being that if you let them get away with everything, keep buying more and more natural resources from them, eventually they will come round.

Disproportionate aggression can also come from widely shared idea of the manifest destiny of the 'Russian World', and a perceived weakness of the people you're being aggressive against.

I personally don't buy the NATO excuse, or the denazificiation / desatanisation excuse, or protecting Russian speakers excuse.

I think you just have to listen to what they say and watch what they do to understand their motivations.

[Old_pie]

I think Russia, far from being provoked, has been treated with kid gloves for a long time. The idea being that if you let them get away with everything, keep buying more and more natural resources from them, eventually they will come round.

Disproportionate aggression can also come from widely shared idea of the manifest destiny of the 'Russian World', and a perceived weakness of the people you're being aggressive against.

I personally don't buy the NATO excuse, or the denazificiation / desatanisation excuse, or protecting Russian speakers excuse.

I think you just have to listen to what they say and watch what they do to understand their motivations.

The Russian leaders want the Soviet Union back. Imagine that we set about attacking our old Empire to restore our power around the world. I agree the NATO excuse - but Putin and his cronies hate Gorbachev for breaking down the barriers. NATO forces don't need to be on his doorstep to obliterate them plus of course two 'neutral' countries are now clamouring to join ("Dear Mr Putin, countries apply to join, they don't get invaded")

Putin, the thug, has been laughing and sneering at the West as he built up his riches and funds for this war on our money. I wonder what warnings our leaders were given by the analysts over the past 20+ years that were ignored for cheap fuel.

Minimal response to the shooting down of MAS17 must have emboldened Putin, but he is getting increasingly desperate now that his "special operations" invasion of Ukraine wasn't over in one week.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian population suffers but the seem to be displaying the bulldog spirit that got us through WWII.

[Jampie]

"America did bad things therefore it's fine for Russia to invade and conquer other nations" is a ridiculous non-argument that I'm sure nobody's trying to make.