OT James Bond

[ramAnag]

Well considering your back ground, it was hardly likely was it? Heard it myself loads of times, from child hood to work.
Just because "YOU'VE" never heard it, doesn't make it less real you know.

The irony is, that even though it was a racial slur from the USA in the 50's, where do you think n*****r came from?
The fact we had a kids tv puppet called sooty, makes it even more laughable.
It wasn't that long ago, that folks were not so easily offended from both sides of the fence. Then the snowflake brigade started their campaign.

Heres a token youtube for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN...l=DarkAngel182

...and you know what about ‘my background’ exactly?

Just ask yourself...there are two words, ‘N****r’ and Sooty. One of them is deeply offensive to black people...one of them isn’t. Have a guess at which one. Perhaps the fact that there was a puppet called Sooty and I can still type that word with impunity, even on here, is a clue.

[Trickytreesreds]

...and you know what about ‘my background’ exactly?

Just ask yourself...there are two words, ‘N****r’ and Sooty. One of them is deeply offensive to black people...one of them isn’t. Have a guess at which one. Perhaps the fact that there was a puppet called Sooty and I can still type that word with impunity, even on here, is a clue.

Hang on a minute. You was in denial a minute ago, that sooty was a racial slur? Now you're banging on about severity?
Either it is one or it isn't? Which is it?

Again I'll ask you. If N****r is deeply offensive to black people, who do they use it among themselves?
It's very double standards and confusing. You can't throw a hissy fit when a white man calls you "n*****R", but your "bro" can.

[ramAnag]

I would not call a black person N1gger, but in the context of the Dambusters, it was the dogs name, which was perfectly acceptable at the time. It was also the code word for breaching of the Mohne Dam. Historical fact and it should not be swept under the carpet.

Yes times have changed and going forward it should not be a word used in every day terms when referring to a black person.

When I was at school I had several friends that were black or Asian and we often used to call them Nig Nog in jest and we'd get called something in return like white honky, it was harmless banter. We remained good friends and it was all light hearted. I actually heard from one of the said people a few weeks ago for the first time in many years and we still greeted each other as firm friends. The past customs, practices and terminology never bothered any of us back then. That was the past and that's how it was back then in the 60s and early 70s.

Sorry OTR...keep being interrupted.

I’m sure you wouldn’t, and I accept your point about contemporary name calling and contextual banter.

As we’ve agreed, times have changed. In the same way as I wouldn’t call someone with Downs Syndrome a ‘Mongol’, a Cerebral Palsy sufferer a ‘Spastic’ or someone who is mixed race a ‘half-caste’ I would never use or accept the word ‘N****r’ and yet they were all in common usage throughout my childhood.

Thankfully we’ve moved on and I think the point possibly is...if people, particularly black people perhaps, were to come across the grave in question, would mention of the name ‘N****r’ be anything other than unhelpful?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Lol...’pot, kettle and...erm...black’.

I ask again...and ‘Sooty’ was a pejorative term for black people when?
Everyone knows the history of ‘n****r’ being used contemptuously by certain white people towards black people. Can you honestly say you’ve heard people disparagingly referred to as ‘Sooty’?
I certainly haven’t. Never heard ‘Sooties Out’ in my life...or seen it written on a subway wall.

#

I refer my learned friend to that estimable televisual epic "Love thy Neighbour" when I recall it frequently being used by Jack Smethurst

[Andy_Faber]

yet again the extremists DO have a point from a 'thin end of a very big wedge' point of view, I've mentioned before here the (attempted) censoring of my former band's set list, we had to provide a set list and were asked/told not to play three songs.
Amazingly there are now web pages where those so inclined can check lists of songs with 'inappropriate' lyrics....

NB The band only has (still going, I got replaced!) two rules: Rule 1.For paid gigs, we play whatever you want (and by default don't play anything you don't want). Rule 2. For free gigs, rule 1 doesn't apply. It was a free gig, damned right we played the songs!

But its worrying even that such lists, and such mindsets, exist (and I don't mean truly offensive stuff, no argument there)

NNB the songs were All The Way From Memphis, Sweet Home Alabama and Wishing Well. You work out what the issue was...

[ramAnag]

Hang on a minute. You was in denial a minute ago, that sooty was a racial slur? Now you're banging on about severity?
Either it is one or it isn't? Which is it?

Again I'll ask you. If N****r is deeply offensive to black people, who do they use it among themselves?
It's very double standards and confusing. You can't throw a hissy fit when a white man calls you "n*****R", but your "bro" can.

Hardly in denial...I was unaware that ‘Sooty’ was apparently used as a racial slur in 1950’s America...however it has never, to the best of my knowledge, been used, on a par with ‘N****r’ - which is what this debate has become about - in this country.

As far as I understand it, and I haven’t thrown a ‘hissy fit’, I’ve just tried to have a logical discussion with OTR, some black people use the word in the same way as they might use ‘dude’ or ‘bro’ as a sort of form of affection/solidarity.

I don’t truly understand it, but you know as well as I do that the word ‘N****r’ is as offensive as any when used by white people to describe black people so stop, as ever, trying to deflect.

[ramAnag]

#

I refer my learned friend to that estimable televisual epic "Love thy Neighbour" when I recall it frequently being used by Jack Smethurst

I had much better things to do than watch sitcoms in the ‘70’s...but wasn’t the character you refer to usually portrayed as a bigoted idiot?

[Andy_Faber]

Hardly in denial...I was unaware that ‘Sooty’ was apparently used as a racial slur in 1950’s America...however it has never, to the best of my knowledge, been used, on a par with ‘N****r’ - which is what this debate has become about - in this country.

As far as I understand it, and I haven’t thrown a ‘hissy fit’, I’ve just tried to have a logical discussion with OTR, some black people use the word in the same way as they might use ‘dude’ or ‘bro’ as a sort of form of affection/solidarity.

I don’t truly understand it, but you know as well as I do that the word ‘N****r’ is as offensive as any when used by white people to describe black people so stop, as ever, trying to deflect.

Not sure if I'm the only white fellah here with significant 'black' household members, the general way of things is that the black household members can (but actually don't) use the N word to each other but no-one else does, they also use 'brud' and 'bro' and although my daughters use them, and it sounds fine because they are (scuse the phrase) in that 'bubble', Mrs F and I don't/wouldn't not through offense but because it would sound stupid. Set against that I call them 'chap' and 'fellah', and they wouldn't use them to me, again it wouldn't sound right. So in my knowledgeable opinion the N word has found its level, I'm almost saying in my manor its a 'what's the issue?' issue. Regarding dude rA, get with the programme, that died out in '75!

[Trickytreesreds]

Hardly in denial...I was unaware that ‘Sooty’ was apparently used as a racial slur in 1950’s America...however it has never, to the best of my knowledge, been used, on a par with ‘N****r’ - which is what this debate has become about - in this country.

As far as I understand it, and I haven’t thrown a ‘hissy fit’, I’ve just tried to have a logical discussion with OTR, some black people use the word in the same way as they might use ‘dude’ or ‘bro’ as a sort of form of affection/solidarity.

I don’t truly understand it, but you know as well as I do that the word ‘N****r’ is as offensive as any when used by white people to describe black people so stop, as ever, trying to deflect.

Are you being obstinate out of denial, or just because everyone refuses to conform to your definitions?
1. I never said, you personally! I am saying in general you cannot throw a hissy fit.
2. If it is offensive, then why do blacks use it? You can't have it both ways.
3. I never said it wasn't offensive, so you stop distorting what I said.
4. If you was unaware that sooty came from USA in 50's then you are being very selective in your racial offensive terms.
5. That little list link I gave you. Read it. It's very informative and may educate you to what is said in the outside world.

Wish you'd had a week with me in HMP. I'd have educated you on every racial slur thrown at me, that I didn't know existed. It goes both ways you know.
Some of us don't throw quite such a drama queen act though.
NB, little note for you. We had a black American for a while from New York. I couldn't believe how anti white racist this man could be. I actually felt sorry for him. Every time the word no was used, resulted in a barrage of racist insults and accusations. So I suppose in your defence, I have to wonder how bad it is over there?
The picture being painted putting the UK on that page though, is way off the mark.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I had much better things to do than watch sitcoms in the ‘70’s...but wasn’t the character you refer to usually portrayed as a bigoted idiot?

Yes, but that further reinforces the observation that sooty was an occasionally used as a racial slur, along with sambo, nig-nog etc