ot Would Britain be better off econimically outside the EU?

[CanadaMiller]

Although its a bit of a red herring, the EU hasn't banned credit card perks.

What they've done (at considerable expense to the taxpayer) is interfere in a market that was doing perfectly well on its own.

The sub text is that the EU has intervened in the bank transactions monopoly that meant 0.7% of all credit card spending was being leveraged in fees and making a lot of wealthy bankers richer as a sort of banker tax every time we spend money.

Or alternatively, you could look at an example close to home to see how things actually work.

I've been thinking of getting Millers Player for the final run-in. However, MillersPlayer don't accept American Express because the fees they charge are too excessive. Look around and you'll find that there are lots of businesses that don't allow Amex because of the charges. In fact, it's one of the fine ironies of life that US Border Protecti

[BigRotherhamFanMe]

OK, so I keep laying down the challenge... can anyone any of these bad laws which are so numerous we simply have to leave?

now Im sounding like a broken record

Well, the main one for me would be along the lines of not being able to limit the number of immigrants from Europe, as this contradicts EU migration law.

Aside from that, I think there's a sense that Europe is meddling in our affairs, whether this be the EU or the ECHR. For example, wasn't it an eu directive which stated insurance companies must not discriminate between gender when it comes to premiums? That isn't something I disagree with by the way but I k

[Muchthemillersson]

John, sorry I couldn't post the link without the gap between the / and the 4 as it's over the permitted 84 characters allowed for a word on MM, close the gap and it's genuine.

OK, I've seen it... and it doesn't really mention specific laws.

But seriously, even with the benefit of Googling why you're outraged... can you a law you're so upset about that you want us to leave the world's largest economic trading bloc, and how it affects your daily life in a way it wouldn't if we left?

I laid down this gauntlet to everyone yesterday and am still waiting...[/quote]

Rather difficult to pick one out John as there are now over 100,000 pages of legal text that new applicants have to adopt when they join the EU. You want one, so I'll come back to that in a bit.

Here are some things you might like to consider as well:

When we joined the Common Market we were told that our manufacturers would s

[John2]

Would you oppose a free trade agreement with the US then?

I have similar concerns about TTIP. I just am not convinced it will lead to a paid for NHS per the doomsday scenario you suggest.

What if the controversial bits you described get dropped from TTIP?

I know little about fishing, is it possible our fishing has declined due to over fishing? From what I do know there aren't as many fish as there used to be and the scientific community says we need to fish even less.

[millmoorlane]

"When we joined the Common Market we were told that our manufacturers would sell more produce to the EU. In the year before we joined the EU our manufacturing amounted to 32% of our Gross Domestic Product. Last year it was less than 10%"

Muchthemillerson - come on. You don't genuinely believe our manufacturing has declined as a result of EU membership.

Decline in manufacturing has come about due to a growth in globalisation...nothing to do with the EU.

Additionally, looking at it as a % of GDP is a daft measure. Our GDP in real terms has almost trebled since we joined the EU suggesting that manufacturing output is more like static in real terms... Its just the rest of the economy has grown quicker.

Without doubt, there's much fewer jobs in manufacturing but that's down to process change and automation rather than anything the EU have pushed on us.

[Adventus2012]

Isn't it ironic that it was the Conservative Party that took us into Europe in 1973, with the more sceptical Labour party promising a referendum on whether the country should stay in, leave or seek renegotiated terms.

When the referendum was held in 1975, the main political parties and all national newspapers campaigned for a vote to stay in the EEC, a stance backed by 67 per cent of voters at the time. I doubt the electorate at that time envisaged it would develop into full political union!

Personally I think we would be ok out of the EEC with a free trade agreement, Norway seem to be doing alright!! see link>>>>>>>>> - view external link

[KerrAvon]

It is true to say that we are members of the EEA through our membership of the EU but there are other countries, notably Norway, Switzerland and Iceland that are members of the EEA and are therefore in the single market but not in the EU. Croatia, which is in the EU but not the EEA is not in the single market.

Just to set things straight, Switzerland is not in the EEA and Croatia is.

[KerrAvon]

OK, so I keep laying down the challenge... can anyone any of these bad laws which are so numerous we simply have to leave?

now Im sounding like a broken record

Well, the main one for me would be along the lines of not being able to limit the number of immigrants from Europe, as this contradicts EU migration law.

Aside from that, I think there's a sense that Europe is meddling in our affairs, whether this be the EU or the ECHR. For example, wasn't it an eu directive which stated insurance companies must not discriminate between gender when it comes to premiums?

[KerrAvon]

Isn't it ironic that it was the Conservative Party that took us into Europe in 1973, with the more sceptical Labour party promising a referendum on whether the country should stay in, leave or seek renegotiated terms.

When the referendum was held in 1975, the main political parties and all national newspapers campaigned for a vote to stay in the EEC, a stance backed by 67 per cent of voters at the time. I doubt the electorate at that time envisaged it would develop into full political union!

Personally I think we would be ok out of the EEC with a free trade agreement, Norway seem to be doing alright!! see link>>>>>>>>>

Norway enjoys 'membership by fax' of the EU. In other words, they have to implement the majority of EU directives if they want to trade with Europe, but have no say over their content, given they are not members. See link.

Perhaps their strong links with the EU has helped their economy. Or perhaps it is beca

[John2]

In which case, can I turn your question on its head, John.

Can you an EU law that you disagree with and that you think has had a negative effect? Or is it all milk and honey in Brussels?

That's not really turning the question on its head. Turning the question on its head would be asking me to EU laws which I support and have benefited from...

and I could loads without having to Google them, I'm sure most of the conspicuously quiet people who have 'loads' of laws they oppose could do the same.

Just as a start, I like that with my EHIC when I go on holiday, if I get taken ill or injured, any EU country is required to treat me in the same way/cost as they treat their own nationals (usually free).

I'll also accept your challenge. I oppose the EU law that means because women's sanitary products have been historically classed as a luxury item, they have to remain subject to tax (currently 5%). This needs to change