What is the point of having a lavish academy then?

[AstonAlex]

I think that it's high time that some of the confusion about where we have earned money from sales, and whether those earnings have fallen, should be debunked. Using data from the transfermrkt website shows that, as Mike argues, the earnings from players early in Dario's reign came from players brought into the club. However, the majority of this came from players released by League clubs such as Lennon, Hignett, Platt et al. These totalled just over £3million up to 1996 (excluding sell on clauses), £2.7m of that coming from Lennon, Hignett and Ward. Since then we have brought in no players released by top clubs that have been sold on, a situation likely to pertain so long as young players at such clubs are paid salaries higher than our top players.

Dario was also adept, with Neil Baker's expertise, at discovering nuggets from non-league clubs. However, the majority of such players played very successfully for us but did not attract a fee when leaving (one thinks of Macca, Smithy, Little, Steve Jones and many others). There have been exceptions of course, notably Luke Varney and John Brayford, but the total profit on fees reveived from such talent is approximately £4.3m since 1990 and nothing since Brayford's sale in 2010.

The first sale of an Academy graduate was in 1990 (Rob Jones) and the second not until 5 years later (Rob Edwards). Since then sales have come more regularly but there has always been a year or two of no sales or smaller fees received. In total the club has received about £30million in fees (in 26 years), excluding sell-on clauses. It is perhaps more instructive to look at a 5 year average of income from the Academy to take account of the 'fallow' years, and this shows that since 1998 there has only been one period when this average is lower than £1million per annum - 2000 to 2004, when we spent most of our time in the second tier. Thanks largely to the sale of Powell (which looks increasing like a great bit of business by the club!) the average income from the Academy over the past 5 years is over £2million pa.

We haven't made a profit from any purchase since Brayford and none from a player bought from a League Club since Luke Rodgers was sold in 2007.

It is pretty clear that the financial sustainability of the club over the past 25 years has been down to the Academy, which has also brought the fans some of the most entertaining football in the lower leagues and a lot of pride in our former players. This is not to say that there should not be a review of the operations of the Academy, or indeed the rest of the club. This is standard practice in any business and the Alex should be no different - it may not be at the top of the Board's agenda right now but it should be pretty close.

I shall now sit back and wait for my analysis to be picked apart - and don't take the precise numbers as gospel, but they should be pretty accurate!!

[MikeSB]

I think that it's high time that some of the confusion about where we have earned money from sales, and whether those earnings have fallen, should be debunked. Using data from the transfermrkt website shows that, as Mike argues, the earnings from players early in Dario's reign came from players brought into the club. However, the majority of this came from players released by League clubs such as Lennon, Hignett, Platt et al. These totalled just over £3million up to 1996 (excluding sell on clauses), £2.7m of that coming from Lennon, Hignett and Ward. Since then we have brought in no players released by top clubs that have been sold on, a situation likely to pertain so long as young players at such clubs are paid salaries higher than our top players.

Dario was also adept, with Neil Baker's expertise, at discovering nuggets from non-league clubs. However, the majority of such players played very successfully for us but did not attract a fee when leaving (one thinks of Macca, Smithy, Little, Steve Jones and many others). There have been exceptions of course, notably Luke Varney and John Brayford, but the total profit on fees reveived from such talent is approximately £4.3m since 1990 and nothing since Brayford's sale in 2010.

The first sale of an Academy graduate was in 1990 (Rob Jones) and the second not until 5 years later (Rob Edwards). Since then sales have come more regularly but there has always been a year or two of no sales or smaller fees received. In total the club has received about £30million in fees (in 26 years), excluding sell-on clauses. It is perhaps more instructive to look at a 5 year average of income from the Academy to take account of the 'fallow' years, and this shows that since 1998 there has only been one period when this average is lower than £1million per annum - 2000 to 2004, when we spent most of our time in the second tier. Thanks largely to the sale of Powell (which looks increasing like a great bit of business by the club!) the average income from the Academy over the past 5 years is over £2million pa.

We haven't made a profit from any purchase since Brayford and none from a player bought from a League Club since Luke Rodgers was sold in 2007.

It is pretty clear that the financial sustainability of the club over the past 25 years has been down to the Academy, which has also brought the fans some of the most entertaining football in the lower leagues and a lot of pride in our former players. This is not to say that there should not be a review of the operations of the Academy, or indeed the rest of the club. This is standard practice in any business and the Alex should be no different - it may not be at the top of the Board's agenda right now but it should be pretty close.

I shall now sit back and wait for my analysis to be picked apart - and don't take the precise numbers as gospel, but they should be pretty accurate!!

Very well researched post there mate. Well done.

But can you clarify this you said..

"the average income from the Academy over the past 5 years is over £2million pa."

That is 10 million total is it not over the 5 years??

We have not sold anyone for 3.5 seasons since Powell left for a debatable 3 or 4 million as the fee was not disclosed and so where does the other 6 or 7 million come from? in the 18 months before Powell left? And if we removed Powell from the equation how would the dispersion look like then? I'm not saying your figures are wrong but just asking for clarification. Thank you for the rest of your post though. 300K for Clayton, around the same for Colclough and sell on fee which you have not taken account of and so the only income over the last and unless someone goes at the end of this season for a large fee, that becomes around 600K in 4 years and 3 million spent ie 750K per year.

And we all know times have changed now with the PL rolling in money and buying in from all over the world, ready mades then the sales must become even harder at least for the money we used to get and the Board must surely know all this. Problem as always is Bowler or Gradi are poor at public relations and keeping fans informed. In fact its quite possible that Bowler may use your post in order to keep the status quo!

[thnhouse]

Lets Say 4m for Powell, 750k Murphy, 3mil Westwood, 750k Colclough, 300 Clayton, 750k Hanley sell on and 400k for Trinket Smith. thats just unde 10 and I'm sure I've forgotten someone.

[MikeSB]

Lets Say 4m for Powell, 750k Murphy, 3mil Westwood, 750k Colclough, 300 Clayton, 750k Hanley sell on and 400k for Trinket Smith. thats just unde 10 and I'm sure I've forgotten someone.

Ah I forgot about Westwood but its actually making less sense that it did before...All that money and the club kept pleading poverty the whole time with the first team playing budget on a shoe string, wages low and can't sign anyone unless we unload one...

We may as well be Rochdale and 40 other clubs in the lower leagues that would have loved that sort of cash. The policy should always have been 50/50 of all transfer fees to the First Team/Academy and cloth cut to suit. Its not actually making progress to end up where you started having seen 30 millions come and almost gone..

My ed is starting to ache again!

BTW not sure the match will be on tomorrow with last night snow and frost and not sure what the forecast is for tomoz.

[AstonAlex]

Thanks for the kind words, Mike - much appreciated!

The website I used (transfermarkt.co.uk) quoted the following:
Powell £6.38m
Westwood £2.13m
Miller £100k
Murphy £995k
Clayton £319k
Colclough £300
TOTAL £10,224,000


I realise that the Powell money may not have all come at once and some may be estimates, but some of the other figures quoted on the site look realistic. Its well worth a look as it also estimates the market value of players both now and when they were sold.

[bigroof]

I'd forgotten Colclough! And the behind-the-scenes deal for Dan Trickett-Smith's move to Liverpool. Thanks thnhouse.

So, plenty of deals to keep things ticking over, even in a lean time. I'm pretty sure we only got £3m for Powell. I remember reading something by Dario that spelt that out; the rest of the deal would've depended upon appearances over time, but unfortunately he's had so many injuries, it just never happened.

[MikeSB]

I'd forgotten Colclough! And the behind-the-scenes deal for Dan Trickett-Smith's move to Liverpool. Thanks thnhouse.

So, plenty of deals to keep things ticking over, even in a lean time. I'm pretty sure we only got £3m for Powell. I remember reading something by Dario that spelt that out; the rest of the deal would've depended upon appearances over time, but unfortunately he's had so many injuries, it just never happened.

Not sure of the actual transfer fee and always mystified why its 'undisclosed' other than to pee of both sets of fans?

Dario has said that Powell would need to play something like 40 games for the first team to get an additional million pounds. Also Dario was on about ten percent and no problem with that as selling NP was a masterstroke at that figure as other sales were. It will be interesting if we could get another multi million pound fee for someone or even one million will do..

I don't think anyone close at the moment though and still another 60 grand a month going in...and there is the SD payoff and NC too...Maybe its a bit harsh on him as he was tied to a failing manager? I suppose he could return to the academy in Lunts place and in fact SD could take on DA old job...its not a bad one..better than B&Q..

[somersetcrewe]

...and there is the SD payoff and NC too...

Why do you keep referring to James Collins as Neil Critchley? ........... assuming that's who you mean by NC?
I think you'll find he left a while ago.
Almost as bad as those fans who couldn't spell SD's name correctly!!
tut tut!

[MikeSB]

Why do you keep referring to James Collins as Neil Critchley? ........... assuming that's who you mean by NC?
I think you'll find he left a while ago.
Almost as bad as those fans who couldn't spell SD's name correctly!!
tut tut!

Sorry,

I want HG to go next! Harry Gregg, no no I mean DG...Dario Gregg!

How does Dave Artell come across? We'll find out tomorrow after another defeat lol!

Anyone remember using the term DA for a haircut in the old days?

I think you may be too young Somerset!

[somersetcrewe]

How does Dave Artell come across? We'll find out tomorrow after another defeat lol!

I like the appointment, and it has certainly reinvigorated my interest for this season (you can probably tell by my recent increased contributions on here - I had "lost the love" for a while!), but his interviews do suggest he is a little raw in the role - and of course he is, it's his first managerial job!
It's just that he doesn't come across as a natural manager to me as much as he did captain - not as much as I thought he would anyway.
Early days I know but too much of the "I'm only being honest", "I'm only telling them what they already know" and "I'm a realist".
Would the likes of Conte, Mourinho or Klopp say such things?
Even the likes of Adams, Ferguson and Curle in our league? - I don't think so.

I'm also a little wary of his thoughts on the academy and style of play. He says all the right things about the former but does he really believe it is "one of the cheapest in the country"? - how would he know?
And he went to see Luton at Accrington - great! - but he noted how Accrington got in their faces to turn them over.
Now that may be the way for Accrington to do it - but is it ours? We're supposed to be a "footballing team", and that's the style I hope he gets out of our players.

Time will tell.
I'll be listening in today and off to Exeter in Feb.
There's certainly a buzz I can sense, let's hope we feed off it.

Anyone remember using the term DA for a haircut in the old days?
I think you may be too young Somerset!

Oh dear, if that's what knowing what DA means ..... errrr ....... means, then I *must* be old!!!!
Quack! Quack!