o/t night of the long knives

[rolymiller]

Think there is an easy cop out in all this. Put it to a second vote for the electorate but something on the lines of: do you want to return to the European union as it was or do you want to forget about the whole shebang and to it alone. At least we will know where we all stand and can start planning for it because I fear the govt will have made no plans if there isn't an agreement come next year. It's a mess and it was so predictable this would all turn out to be a monumental balls up.

[sawmiller]

Why do the Tories own Brexit?.

To be fair KerrAvon it was Cameron and his Government who proposed and held the referendum in the first place in an ill conceived bid to unite the long running disagreements about it within the party. The term “eurosceptic” predated his tenure

[KerrAvon]

To be fair KerrAvon it was Cameron and his Government who proposed and held the referendum in the first place in an ill conceived bid to unite the long running disagreements about it within the party. The term “eurosceptic” predated his tenure

The division within the Tories reflects that within the country.

I still don't get why the Tories own Brexit. It was Parliament who enacted The Referendum Act, with the Honourable member for Islington, The Great Leader, voting in favour of it (on the one occasion that he turned up to vote on it), so surely he owns a bit? animal then voted leave so he owns a bit too.

[animallittle3]

Why do the Tories own Brexit? They gave the country a choice and the country chose. Surely it's owned by the electorate and, in particular, Leave voters such as yourself? Why did you vote Leave? I recall that in the run up to the vote was about people speaking Polish around you at work. Since then you have adopted a hokey cokey opinion on the single market, wanting to be in one minute and out the next.

Ah slight ad haminem , one day you'll leave the whig at work .

I voted leave because I never liked the way the EU had so much control over our country , as a trading model it was fine .

One of my best friends is Polish who I met at work , round at our house for drinks , meals with his partner , he's since left the UK and gone back to Poland , we communicate regularly and both my partner and myself have invites over there anytime we can .

Spending the whole week working with Poles on that particular job and not able to join in the conversation and banter would pyss off most people especially when the Poles could speak perfectly well in english and have me included and not ostracised .

The court room style picture you are painting doesn't exist except for a particularly boring and tough week feeling like the third wheel .

Hokey cokey !!!

Is there any wonder given the complexity of this thing , the way the whole process has gone so far , it's taken two years to get the cabinet in a room and not leave till an agreement of sorts was reached .

A black and white vote on a rainbow of issues backed up by a campaign of lies , distortion's and hidden truths .

Don't try and dump this on the electorate given the nature of campaigning with self interest at the heart of it .

The Tories own it , so far it's cost them a PM , a lost majority and more divided than they were two years ago with the present incumbent hanging on for dear life .

[mellowmiller]

Always chirping at the labour party, tell me (i know you won't...) what would you do in Corbyn's position, would you place the party firmly on one side or the other of a debate which has quite frankly split the country down the middle, or would you accept the vote and await the inevitable implosion of the tory party over this? Tactically he has it spot on at the moment, hasn't he.

This is what concerns me MMM.
The Conservatives are devouring themselves from within and the Brexit negotiations are in a mess but the Labour Party isn't making it's position clear. In fact I would suggest there seem to be as many divisions on Brexit in the opposition as there are within the government.
I know you've said elsewhere that if Labour were in power they would put the Brexit negotiations as their main priority and, whereas I agree they would have to, I haven't got a clue how they would go about it and I doubt if anyone else has.
The whole thing is a bugger' s muddle and I don't think either of the main parties seem to have the capability to sort it out.
One of them is going to have to though.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Laughable to see the Polish plumber waffle turn up again.

Folks that voted leave weren’t grumbling about the Polish tradesmen nor about the foreign doctors and nurses in the NHS it was the hordes of Eastern European scroungers and other similar foreigners that gave momentum to the vote leave campaign.

The EU went too far with their largely unrestricted influx of people from outside the EU. That coupled with some bizarre rulings of their EU courts of justice and the balance tipped toward “goodbye EU” in many folks minds.

Cameron being so far out of touch with the majority of the population of the UK and with absolutely no idea what problems immigration was bringing ( particularly north of Watford) thought that given a referendum folks would comfortably vote stay. He got it badly wrong and Mrs May inherited that mess. Sadly for her it presented a problem way beyond her capabilities to solve and there was no way she was going to get any help from the muppets that surrounded her.

Sadly hard brexit is now the only way we can ‘win” a position forced on us by the tactics of the remainers.

[millmoormagic]

Laughable to see the Polish plumber waffle turn up again.

Folks that voted leave weren’t grumbling about the Polish tradesmen nor about the foreign doctors and nurses in the NHS it was the hordes of Eastern European scroungers and other similar foreigners that gave momentum to the vote leave campaign.

The EU went too far with their largely unrestricted influx of people from outside the EU. That coupled with some bizarre rulings of their EU courts of justice and the balance tipped toward “goodbye EU” in many folks minds.

Cameron being so far out of touch with the majority of the population of the UK and with absolutely no idea what problems immigration was bringing ( particularly north of Watford) thought that given a referendum folks would comfortably vote stay. He got it badly wrong and Mrs May inherited that mess. Sadly for her it presented a problem way beyond her capabilities to solve and there was no way she was going to get any help from the muppets that surrounded her.

Sadly hard brexit is now the only way we can ‘win” a position forced on us by the tactics of the remainers.

You were doing quite well there until you mentioned hard brexit and that being forced on us by remainers, what a load of codswallop that is, hard brexit is being actively chased by hard brexiters, namely hard right fanatics with no thought for the country as a whole, only in lining their own pockets, the tory party is rife with them.

[animallittle3]

My Polish mate tells me that he was attracted to the Uk through very good marketing advertising campaigns broadcast on Polish tv .

Shots of London , all the sights , sat outside Thames side pubs and bistros in the summer , you get the picrure .

The reality was different as he initially settled in Luton , sky high rental prices and minimum wage through agency's .

They came up north because of the lower rental prices but he told me he wouldn't have come here knowing what he knows now , he used the word exploited .

Just his version of events , he's back in Poland now and settled with the same amount of savings to his name as he had 10 years ago , minimal .

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Pity he ended up in Luton.

A lot of immigration issues there, majority of it not caused by EU nationals.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

I reckon KerrAvon has it right.

It’s a waste of time reading your replies.

Deluded