O/T:- Navalny

[BigFatPie]

Estonia are so unconcerned about their Russian neighbours that they’ve given €500m to Ukraine in military aid, 1.4% of GDP. And they’ve proposed that all Western nations agree to 0.25% annually.

https://news.err.ee/1609222386/eston...western-states

Seems like nato membership isn’t enough.

But obviously consumers of ropey podcasts and dodgy tv channels in the UK know better than the actual people who live on Putin’s doorstep.

[Jampie]

If Putin's war in Ukraine was to prevent NATO piling up on his borders its failed spectacularly at that too, considering it convinced Finland to join.

[andy6025]

If Putin's war in Ukraine was to prevent NATO piling up on his borders its failed spectacularly at that too, considering it convinced Finland to join.

While i don’t think Russians are happy that Finland joined NATO, they consider Ukraine to eclipse it by far in terms of core geo strategic interests. And thus far they have prevented it from joining NATO.

Of course, from the Russian point of view they probably perceive that there’s been a slurry of side benefits to the invasion - some that might have been unpredictable, at least in their magnitude. For example, the extent to which the Europeans, and the Germans and uk in particular, have wrecked their own economies in response. I have little doubt that the Kremlin smells like cigars over that one.

But Europe seems quite content with the way things are going, so full steam ahead. And now that Finland is in the club (I hear that even Finnish children can kill 10 Russians with their bare hands) it’s all but a nail in the coffin to Putin’s imperialist plans.

[Kent Magpie]

While i don’t think Russians are happy that Finland joined NATO, they consider Ukraine to eclipse it by far in terms of core geo strategic interests. And thus far they have prevented it from joining NATO.

Of course, from the Russian point of view they probably perceive that there’s been a slurry of side benefits to the invasion - some that might have been unpredictable, at least in their magnitude. For example, the extent to which the Europeans, and the Germans and uk in particular, have wrecked their own economies in response. I have little doubt that the Kremlin smells like cigars over that one.

But Europe seems quite content with the way things are going, so full steam ahead. And now that Finland is in the club (I hear that even Finnish children can kill 10 Russians with their bare hands) it’s all but a nail in the coffin to Putin’s imperialist plans.

I think you are giving Putin far too much credit for our economic demise, we have done that all by ourselves, but it suits the government to blame Putin as it stops them from having to address the effects of Brexit and their own mismanagement. Our slide had started way before the war in Ukraine, and even before the pandemic (another big cause of our woes). So, much as you would like to toast Putin's genius, I think you are wrong about this.

[andy6025]

I think you are giving Putin far too much credit for our economic demise, we have done that all by ourselves, but it suits the government to blame Putin as it stops them from having to address the effects of Brexit and their own mismanagement. Our slide had started way before the war in Ukraine, and even before the pandemic (another big cause of our woes). So, much as you would like to toast Putin's genius, I think you are wrong about this.

While you’re not wrong on Brexit and Covid, etc., to be fair I did say that Europe wrecked their own economies rather than crediting Putin.

[SmiffyPie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68359252
No doubt this will be trashed by some but it is an interesting article.

[BigFatPie]

Putin should withdraw from the countries he’s invaded and he should stop murdering his political opponents. It would be nice if he could be tried for his crimes, but I accept that’s very unlikely.

Why the apologists and appeasers don’t think these things I’m not entirely sure.

[maddogslater]

Of course he should but he won't. I do fear Trump being elected and breaking up Nato, it seems almost inevitable that Nato will be at war with Russia sooner or later, your link is sobering reading Smithy.

[andy6025]

Some interesting developments lately:

Ukraine’ intelligence chief a few weeks ago came out and said he believes Navalny likely died of a blood clot, as Russia has claimed, giving fuel to “conspiracy theorists” who believe Covid vaccinations cause much higher rates of deadly blood clots (for the record, I have no idea if they’re right or not):

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/28630

And then there’s this guy: Boeing whistleblower John Barnett found dead of a supposed self-inflicted gun shot wound in his car amidst a busy schedule of testifying against Boeing. “Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett's passing”, with the usual helping of thoughts and prayers extended to his family. Did US government backed oligarchs assassinate him? I don’t know the answer to that either. In this case I imagine the apologists and appeasers will just ignore the story, as will the general population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703.amp

[SmiffyPie]

Barnett is a strange one. I could imagine the "self-inflicted" part was his decision to blow the whistle! Funny how a lot people that rock the establishments (any establishment) boat suddenly fall foul to some very stange "accidents".